How much that the LDS tells me can I believe?

[Jim Lapenta]

You pretty much summed up how I feel. I was not even aware, until I found this board, that there were options that were only half the cost of the package we got. We both have very top-of-the-line equipment as that was the only option we were shown. They only had three fin styles to choose from in-store, all of them at or above $200 a pair, so we assumed that was a normal price. All their masks ranged from $70 to $100, again, we assumed normal price. All their snorkels were the same price, so it was a matter of color preference. There there is also the fact he pushed that we shouldn't look online and that we needed the high cost equipment because that was the only thing acceptable to buy. Had I looked online first (which I admit, I didn't even think to do until this week!) my husband and I both would have full dive gear sets for the price we have paid for the minimal gear we've gotten so far.

To clear up the thing about the BC - it IS a $500 BC, but the integrated Air II (alternate air source on the inflator) was around $200 extra. I like the feature so I got it.

You may regret that later when you have to share air and control your buoyancy while your inflator is in your mouth. A standard octo would have set you back 75 bucks or so. Some people like em I admit. Personally I'd not use one. If all his fins were in the 200 dollar range he's full of it as well. Most good dive quality fins start at 75 bucks or so. Even aqualung blades two are around 125 on the high side. Where are you located? My best wetsuit was a 380 dollar one I got for 250 with my pro discount. And whoever thinks that getting 10% off retail is a good deal needs to realize that may times MAP is with a 50%-100% markup. MSRP is usually 5-15% above MAP with many manufacturers. Short answer is this guy is a prick and he saw this class coming.

 

[shoupart]

Hi Viola,

I agree that you are overpaying- $700 for 2 sets of fins, boots, snorkels, and masks?! (off the top of my head, I would think this would be $200-$250 per person at a reasonable cost). Those regs also seem ridiculously overpriced, too- at least twice what it should cost.

It's a shame that owner is pressuring you into having no real choices and discouraging you from looking elsewhere, but you've got a great resource here in this board to make better choices and become more informed through research and reading the opinions of others.

I personally have no problem with buying gear online. Yeah, it's life support gear, but I'm sure non-dive life support gear, too, is sold online. Even DAN is selling its Oxygen First Aid units through its website, so yeah, I'd buy life support gear online.

You're just hearing the collective grumblings of a bunch of suspicious Luddites who have got a problem with this. It's the same mentality that initially opposed the inclusion of SPGs, octos, and other now-accepted safety features into dive equipment.

Online sales were perhaps risky propositions ten years ago, but come on- this is 2008. It's become acceptable and overwhelmingly safe to be ordering products online. For some reason, dive shop owners seem to be too conservative or overly cautious to accept this.

Most gear is pretty well made these days. If there's some piece of crap, thanks to the internet, somebody is certain to have publicly lambasted it. Thanks to search engines, you can weed out the good gear from the crap pretty quickly now.

I had to laugh about that instructor talking smack over the wetsuit from Scuba.com- who really cares, when it comes to a wetsuit, if the dealer is authorized? I can see it being more important when it comes to a regulator or computer or something that might need periodic servicing, but a wetsuit? What's the problem if it's sold by a non-approved dealer?

I just bought a wetsuit on Ebay to replace my old tattered one. I know what size I wear, so I searched and found a listing for a suit in my size. It was a brand I wasn't familiar with, but I ran the company through a check on here, emailed a few customers of them, got some positive reviews, and decided to buy the suit. It came in the mail overnight and fit fine. A little research saved me at least $150 from buying it at a store, and I got exactly what I needed.

I think the best thing to do is research online, talk to people on here (some of whom have as much or experience than that dive shop owner) and you'll be much more informed on what's a good buy and what's not, and what to be worried about, etc.

 

[shoupart]

I think a lot of LDS's seem to take their customers for granted, too, which is a big pet peeve of mine. But thankfully, most of those guys aren't around very long.

 

[ReefHound]

It's become acceptable and overwhelmingly safe to be ordering products online. For some reason, dive shop owners seem to be too conservative or overly cautious to accept this.

No they're not. Dive shop owners use the internet all the time to order product. They just don't want *you* to do it.

 

[plumbcrazy]

I looked at 1 1/2 pages and couldn't take it any more. The prices you have stated are WAY to much even for a LDS. I wouldn't care if the guy can dive to nine thousand feet on a half of tank of air, you NEED to find a new shop! They are not all bad. Christ you can drive to my LDS in Minnesota and save money, even with three dollar gas.

 

[scubagoldmc]

As background I was originally certified about 41 years ago while in college. It was college instructors and most gear was owned by the college (thank goodness as I was the usual broke college student putting myself through). We did have to have our own mask, fins, and snorkel and we rented wetsuits as required. I only did a few dives after cert.

When my wife and I decided to get certified 3 years ago we visited 3 local shops. One couldn't tell us when he would be running a class (his loss). One was extremely high pressure and expected you to buy all your gear up front from him (at excessive prices). We almost ran out of that shop and have never gone back. This seems to be similar to what you have found. I would not do business with a shop like this.

I like to do business with local shops if they are reasonable. They don't have to be the absolute lowest prices, they do deserve something for "good" advice. The best shops and the ones that will get my loyalty would be one that if they don't have what would be ideal for me is not afraid to point me to a place that had what I needed. A shop like this will get a lot of business from me later. I believe my current shop would do this but they are probably few and far between.

Best of luck in your diving experiences in the future.

Mike

 

[texswamper]

Wow, so much information to digest! My husband and I were just certified about 3 weeks ago. This was quite an accomplishment for me since I struggled through the pool sessions with much anxiety. My instructor/LDS owner was very patient and encouraging with me. Since I had trouble with feeling like I couldn't get enough air easily, she gave me her reg on the second pool session with just her and I. It was the ScubaPro MK25/S600. The difference for me was significant!

I continued to use that reg for the next pool session (I almost quit) and again in Key Largo for my OWC dives. Okay, you guessed it, they only sell SP gear. Because of my anxiety issues, I decided to purchase the SP reg and my SP Ladyhawk bc (I did buy the bc used for 270). I want to be comfortable knowing how my gear works and not worried about trying to figure out rental gear.

My only problem with the LDS is I feel guilty about purchasing other brands and definitely discourages purchasing anything online. The current downturn in the economy and lack of business has come up in discussions. We are not money challenged, but I want a good deal as much as the next guy. That's why i've purchased the Aeris Manta computers for $299 after research, but I'm afraid to tell her that I'm not buying UWATEC from them. We don't have many LDS around to comparison shop. OBTW, my husband and I paid $300 each for SP mask,snorkel,fins, boots and gloves. $99 for the classes since we bought gear from them and I bought a SP Thermal Tec 5mm suit for $295 because of some nerve damage that cold temps aggravate. I feel we've spent more than enough money with them and should not feel guilty about shopping around, but how should I approach this issue? I really love my instructor.

 

[violakat03]

Wow, so much information to digest! My husband and I were just certified about 3 weeks ago. This was quite an accomplishment for me since I struggled through the pool sessions with much anxiety. My instructor/LDS owner was very patient and encouraging with me. Since I had trouble with feeling like I couldn't get enough air easily, she gave me her reg on the second pool session with just her and I. It was the ScubaPro MK25/S600. The difference for me was significant!

I continued to use that reg for the next pool session (I almost quit) and again in Key Largo for my OWC dives. Okay, you guessed it, they only sell SP gear. Because of my anxiety issues, I decided to purchase the SP reg and my SP Ladyhawk bc (I did buy the bc used for 270). I want to be comfortable knowing how my gear works and not worried about trying to figure out rental gear.

My only problem with the LDS is I feel guilty about purchasing other brands and definitely discourages purchasing anything online. The current downturn in the economy and lack of business has come up in discussions. We are not money challenged, but I want a good deal as much as the next guy. That's why i've purchased the Aeris Manta computers for $299 after research, but I'm afraid to tell her that I'm not buying UWATEC from them. We don't have many LDS around to comparison shop. OBTW, my husband and I paid $300 each for SP mask,snorkel,fins, boots and gloves. $99 for the classes since we bought gear from them and I bought a SP Thermal Tec 5mm suit for $295 because of some nerve damage that cold temps aggravate. I feel we've spent more than enough money with them and should not feel guilty about shopping around, but how should I approach this issue? I really love my instructor.

I don't do well with confrontation so I'm wondering how my instructor will react if I show up on Wednesday in a wetsuit that was quite obviously not purchased from him - well I hope I will be, anyway, I'm on the way out the door to go try some on at a competing shop. During class, he is the epitome of patience, he helped my husband get over some issues he was having with getting enough air as well (he was panicking once he got under) and he's really a great instructor. I just don't like the way he runs his store, it's nothing personal against him. If he makes a comment about it I'll simply tell him "I got a recommendation online to check out this brand, they had it in stock and it was half the price of your 3mm suits. I really wanted to try it on instead of ordering." If he understands, great, if he puts up a fuss, hey, I'm the consumer and I get to choose where I shop. I'm also the student and can decide to take my advanced and S&R from another instructor - there's another store about an hour away that I can take both classes in the same time it will take me to go through one with just one class a week. Plus it's about the same price I'd be paying the college to take them.

Basically, it's on her to understand that you are a consumer and have a right to shop where you want. If she puts up a fuss about it, then she's not being professional as an instructor nor a sales person.

 

[xbonnie]

The instructor's JOB is to teach you to dive - patience is part of that. Their job should not be to sell you gear - seems like a conflict of interest to me. I know students trust their instructors' opinions and recommendations, but if that instructor is making a profit off of equipment sales it gives them incentive to push too hard sometimes. As a dive shop employee (not an instructor) and a consumer of way too much dive gear I see both sides. The store has to make a profit, but everyone likes to get a good deal. For people who are on a tight budget I usually recommend getting non-life support gear from where ever they can find it the cheapest and buying the gear they will need more service and instruction on from us. I try to make it worth their while to buy from me (free drysuit orientation, etc.) and am are allowed to throw in "freebies" or special deals when someone buys a package that contains equipment from more than one manufacturer. I know you can get a great deal on the internet, but I really appreciate customers who come in to talk to me and give me a chance to make them a deal before they buy. I suggest that they find what they want online and print it out, then bring it in to see what I can do (gives me ammo if the shop owner gets upset when I give them too good a deal). What I don't like is customers who come in and waste hours of my time only to go online and buy exactly what I recommended to them without ever giving me a shot. Do your homework, be honest and up front and if your LDS won't work with you it's their loss. At least you've given them the choice - make something or make nothing - you should both be able to live with that.

 

[violakat03]

I went to a competitor LDS today.

Wow, what a difference. I have definitely found my permanent LDS. I felt cared for, like they really thought my opinion was important, not pushed towards certain products, and just ... wow. Awesome. Definitely earned me as a customer.