How great is the risk (in your perception)?

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Can someone define team bailout?
In my application every diver carries an 80 of bottom bailout gas, depending on the depth of the dive several deco bailout gasses are split among team members. During the planning stage the ascent profile is analysed against the best gas choices and team members and an ascent profile is determined enabling the team to make best use of tanks on hand. For instance if one was to just use v-planner bailout option the software would get you shallow sooner which would rely heavily on richer deco gases and not use much of the deeper tanks. I prefer to select gases and ascent profiles that align closely to the ascent profile the CCR would provide. If there were 3 team members we could split the deco gas between us. We would plan that each tank hold twice as much gas as any diver needs for any phase of the bailout and in most cases there is enough excess gas in each tank that a diver could modify the ascent if one of the gases become unavailable.
This is not a practice to be taken lightly and it is something I practice with only a select group of teammates but there are dives that I have done where this is the most practical solution. Logistically the remoteness of some dives and availability of resources makes this a viable option.
Whether the "collective" agrees or not, not everyone dives under the same conditions.
 
Individual bailout is you carrying everything that you need to get you out of wherever you are at provided you have a total CCR failure. Basically treat gas planning as if you were solo.
Team bailout is anything less than that. It may be enough gas to get 1 diver out from a catastrophic loop failure, or anything in between that and total self sufficient gas planning. In a team of 2, it is usually enough to get 1.5x divers out, and in a team of more than 2, it is enough to get 2 divers out.

A thought experiment concerning “team bailout” when diving CCR in a cave…
Setting Limits for cave diving: How much bailout gas should a CCR cave diver carry… and where?
Bailout Strategies
Rebreather Bailout Gas Management | IntoThePlanet

This is my general interpretation of the term "team bailout", although I had a student of Mel Clark's describe a slightly different procedure for team bailout. They described it as each diver having enough individual bailout, but in the event of a total system failure, the buddy team would periodically rotate bailout gases/cylinders as they made their way towards the exit. The method allowed all members of the team to equalize resources so that the OC diver would never have to worry about running low on bailout and still make it so that each diver had enough bailout to exit the cave from their current location.
 
depending on the depth of the dive several deco bailout gasses are split among team members.

Say a team of 2, the team has bottom gas, 50% and 100% bailout, but of the deco gases you are only carrying 50% and your buddy carrying 100%. Do you still have enough gas on your person to deco out without his 100%, just slower and less efficient or would you have to get to his O2 in order to complete your deco obligation?
 
This is my general interpretation of the term "team bailout", although I had a student of Mel Clark's describe a slightly different procedure for team bailout. They described it as each diver having enough individual bailout, but in the event of a total system failure, the buddy team would periodically rotate bailout gases/cylinders as they made their way towards the exit. The method allowed all members of the team to equalize resources so that the OC diver would never have to worry about running low on bailout and still make it so that each diver had enough bailout to exit the cave from their current location.

See, this sounds much more logical to me. My rule for buddying with someone is I don't ever want anyone to rely on me for safety. If you NEED my help to prevent your death, you've done lots of things very wrong. If having me around benefits you in a way that increases your convenience but doesn't change the overall outcome...I'm happy to help and get help.

In terms of team bailout, I'm here to read as I can contribute essentially nothing.....but what you're describing sounds very much not like "Team Bailout" as I've heard it discussed before. If every diver has enough gas to get out while solo and having a buddy around helps make things even safer and/or more convenient then I see nothing wrong with it.
 
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Individual bailout is you carrying everything that you need to get you out of wherever you are at provided you have a total CCR failure. Basically treat gas planning as if you were solo.
Team bailout is anything less than that. It may be enough gas to get 1 diver out from a catastrophic loop failure, or anything in between that and total self sufficient gas planning. In a team of 2, it is usually enough to get 1.5x divers out, and in a team of more than 2, it is enough to get 2 divers out.

A thought experiment concerning “team bailout” when diving CCR in a cave…
Setting Limits for cave diving: How much bailout gas should a CCR cave diver carry… and where?
Bailout Strategies
Rebreather Bailout Gas Management | IntoThePlanet

Whether you're doing individual bailout or team bailout, if you take a CO2 hit you're going to use a lot more gas than normal. In that regard, a team bailout approach should be based on at least 2x the normal gas needed to exit, not 1.5. However, once you're talking a team bailout of 2x the gas a diver needs to exit, and you're talking about it in the context of a 2 person team, you're really playing with semantics - unless you also consider the other aspects of a team approach.

The definition of individual bailout above basically says "enough gas to get yourself out assuming you were solo", but the point Andrew's write up makes is that this can be a lot more gas than you'd think. What Andrew doesn't say is that some of his issues (navigation errors, a flubbed gas switch, etc) could have been mitigated in a 2 person team.

A major question with an individual bailout approach is whether you are willing/able to carry that much gas. The answer to that question for me is usually "probably not", particularly in sidemount dives where the whole point is often to be able to get into smaller passage (where the penetration distance past the last staged bailout is still effectively limited by the bailout you actually have on you). Consequently, I end up doing one or more set up dives to place stages every X number of feet, where "X" varies based on depth, flow, and other actual or expected conditions, such as restrictions, use of a scooter, etc. It's also based on an assumption that a diver who has bailed out will be using 2x the normal amount of gas. Arguably, after a CO2 hit, the actual use may be higher initially, perhaps as much as 4 times the normal rate, but if the diver can't get it back under control during, for example, a 45 minute exit, he or she will probably suffer a cardiac event before they actually run out of gas. There's a point where too much gas won't help and just needlessly increases the logistics, time and deco obligation to get it in place.

In practice, since we dive in a team of two, we place staged bailout containing 2x the gas needed for any one diver to exit, and we don't go any farther past the last stages that than our individual bailout would safely get us back to the last stage. You could call this "individual" bailout. But in fact it really isn't if one of the divers takes a CO2 hit, or perhaps is just panicked, and is thus using more gas than normal AND his or her team mate also has to bailout.

That kind of planning for dual catastrophic failures on a single dive quickly results in either massive logistics, or just thumbing the dive before you even get wet.

But if it happens, how badly this will potentially screw the team will depend on where the second bailout occurs. It's also mitigated to some extent by ensuring the bailout is spread around a bit to ensure that the last remaining bailout gas isn't left in just one remaining tank as you near the exit, which is part of the Mel Clark take on "team" bailout.

In other words, it's more than just a discussion of bare minimum versus maximum practical gas amounts, because the mistake of underestimating the has required can be present in either approach, and some consideration in best practice in actually accessing the bailout during a dive is worth taking about in the team.

In essence, our preference is to use individual gas amounts, but still take advantage of the benefits of diving and functioning as a team when something goes south.
 
We're shifting into another subject: Safety bottles in cave diving.

That's not what I'm talking about. That's a whole other can of worms compared to team bailout.

Team Bailout that I'm talking about is in regards to (mostly) deco gas. Diver A has bottom gas and deco gas 1, Diver B has bottom gas and deco gas 2. Diver C has bottom gas and deco gas 3.

Without Divers 2 and 3, diver 1 cannot complete his deco since he only has 1 deco gas. BAD! And quite common on ocean dives.

This stuff about staging gas throughout a cave is totally different in my mind. If Divers A and B put in a bunch of tanks along the way for one of them to use during the exit, I (generally) think that's since no one is dependent on the actions and presence of another diver. If Diver A had a rebreather issue and Diver B simultaneously vanished, Diver A could still make it out of the cave since all that gas is just sitting there. Diver A is not *dependent* on Diver B.

This is way different than the TBO referenced above since gas clipped to the line isn't going to swim away from you.
 
Not a tech diver, not a rebreather diver just saying this:
This thread (pissing contest detours with name calling ignored) is so interesting! Thanks for all of your contributions. Keep it up...
I am saying this even so some of what I read makes me wonder whether true tech diving might be for me - ever. (And if you have to ask, ...)
By "real tech I don't mean:
Going silent on a rebreather to take pretty pics w/o physical overhead for a couple hours maybe 2.5 h total run time with some deco obligation is very manageable in solo mode all bailout and bailout deco gas on board. I'd see that as totally manageable tech dive, even for me, some day... ...

Now those real (and epic?) tech dives you are talking about... not so sure that would ever be for me...
But finding it vastly interesting... and thus watching... keep it up...
 
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Say a team of 2, the team has bottom gas, 50% and 100% bailout, but of the deco gases you are only carrying 50% and your buddy carrying 100%. Do you still have enough gas on your person to deco out without his 100%, just slower and less efficient or would you have to get to his O2 in order to complete your deco obligation?
usually but in your example for a simple dive requiring only 2 deco tanks we would just carry our own. When you start getting into 3 or more tanks then yes is is more for deco profile considerations than gas volume.
 
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