How close your buddy vs Herd diving

[Bubbletrubble]

The bottom line is communication. When I was in aruba I looked for buddy every once in awhile (8 Breaths or so) I tried to keep track and he was always 10 ft away towards my right when the reef was on my left or on my left when the reef was on the right. I was taking picture and I read on this forum that if your dive buddy is taking picture your effectively solo diving so we discussed that I would lead he would follow and he would get a dvd of all the pics I got.

I am not trying to be critical here, but I would describe this kind of diving as "casual." Novice diver + camera = greatly diminished bandwidth for buddy/situational awareness. Many things can happen in 8 breaths. That can be almost 1.5-2 minutes for some people!
I dive with a camera, but I don't think that bringing one along classifies my style of diving as solo diving. I do a quick check on my buddy's status every 2-3 breaths if she (or her light) is not in my field of vision (usually not the case). But then again, I'm not a hardcore UW photographer.

 

[The Chairman]

Your 10 second rule means that buddies can be 10 seconds apart. This distance isn't always in a convenient direction, however even if it's "10 seconds apart" side by side, that's still 10 seconds without air.

In fact, it's more than that, since it's 10 seconds until "touching distance" then at least a few more seconds to get face to face, do the "Holy s***! I'm out of air!" dance, and for the donor to figure out what's going on and do an air share.

Terry

It's less than that, since it includes FINDING your buddy.

Getting to your buddy is only possible if you know where they are at first! The two buddies in that scenario were in actuality only 2-3 seconds apart (if that). They took 30 seconds (or more) to finally meet up. Epic Fail.

I find that those who lack the situational awareness to manage their gas quite often lack the same awareness in regards to their buddy.

Still, if you can't go a full minute without air under water then I would question your in water comfort level. If your are working strenuously underwater, I may also question your sanity!

 

[stargost]

Is this a high probability statement:
<<The more people in a group of divers, the more far your are likely to be from your buddy>>

Meaning: diving with 2, you tend to stay always very close, but when there are 6 or more divers, there is a (wrong) feeling you and your buddy are next to someone, but at the end, the distance will be greater for every divers.

 

[The Chairman]

To clarify (even though I suspect that you understand and are just being snarky), my post distinguishes between what my "comfortable" buddy separation distance is and whether or not I have an overall sense of comfort in the water.

Not being snarky: I took your statements at face value. Was your question not sincere?

I thought that we were discussing recommended buddy separation distance here...not being able to prove that one can play tag with a buddy in 10 seconds or less.

To me, they are one in the same. You can't swim to your buddy if you don't know where they are. Any paradigm that assumes you will always know is overly optimistic.

I do agree, though, that any exercise that enhances situational awareness is a good thing.

It's fun and gives them an insight into their situational awareness skills.

Not intimidated in the least. I'm still shocked that an instructor would ever recommend a 5 to 10 second buddy separation distance to a novice diver. That's setting the bar too low IMO.

To each his own! It works wonderfully here in Florida!

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Is this a high probability statement:
<<The more people in a group of divers, the more far your are likely to be from your buddy>>

Meaning: diving with 2, you tend to stay always very close, but when there are 6 or more divers, there is a (wrong) feeling you and your buddy are next to someone, but at the end, the distance will be greater for every divers.

Probably depends on your buddy discipline. In a larger dive party, my circle of dive friends will stick just as closely to their buddies as if they were diving only in a group of two (or three, depending on buddy team size). It makes for a looser arrangement of inter-buddy team distance, though. We're used to diving in low vis conditions here, so about half the time the larger dive party won't "survive" until the end of the dive. At various points, buddy teams will peel off and do their own thing. Large numbers of divers tend to scare off marine critters, too, so that's why we prefer smaller groups.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

To clarify (even though I suspect that you understand and are just being snarky), my post distinguishes between what my "comfortable" buddy separation distance is and whether or not I have an overall sense of comfort in the water.

Not being snarky: I took your statements at face value. Was your question not sincere?

Snarky and now coy...at least in my book. My preference for buddy separation distance is less a function of my ability than my risk-averse, conservative nature. My question was more of a rhetorical one. I wouldn't characterize it as "insincere."

To me, they are one in the same. You can't swim to your buddy if you don't know where they are. Any paradigm that assumes you will always know is overly

Ambitious? Optimistic?

To each his own! It works wonderfully here in Florida!

Great.

If anything, I hope that our discussion has proved to be thought-provoking to viewers...and especially novice divers. The question posed by the OP is a good one. It deserves some attention.

 

[scuga]

I am not trying to be critical here, but I would describe this kind of diving as "casual." Novice diver + camera = greatly diminished bandwidth for buddy/situational awareness. Many things can happen in 8 breaths. That can be almost 1.5-2 minutes for some people!
I dive with a camera, but I don't think that bringing one along classifies my style of diving as solo diving. I do a quick check on my buddy's status every 2-3 breaths if she (or her light) is not in my field of vision (usually not the case). But then again, I'm not a hardcore UW photographer.

No, I appreciate it. I know I don't know it all.

This is what my buddy and I agreed on. He has 10 years and a ton of dives on me so I trusted that this was acceptable because it was acceptable to him.

The U/W photography solo diver thing I was just quoting from somewhere on SB and was the catalyst for our having a discussion of my taking the lead based on my having the camera and probably not paying enough attention.

I'm always learning.

 

[The Chairman]

Snarky and now coy...at least in my book. My preference for buddy separation distance is less a function of my ability than my risk-averse, conservative nature. My question was more of a rhetorical one. I wouldn't characterize it as "insincere."

Snarky and coy? I better stop before you call me a troll! :rofl2: But really, unless you give me reasons to believe otherwise, I will take your questions and statements at face value. This often has me answering satirical as well as rhetorical questions.

Ambitious? Optimistic?

The latter. Bathroom breaks are not always kind to my posting.

If anything, I hope that our discussion has proved to be thought-provoking to viewers...and especially novice divers. The question posed by the OP is a good one. It deserves some attention.

Me too!

BTW... does this post make my butt look snarky? Don't be coy!

 

[Ana]

I understand what you're saying, Ana. I would hate to think we're trying to suck all of the fun out of diving. The problem is that benign Caribbean conditions can promote the kind of complacency that contributes to dive accidents. It's probably safer to maintain a certain level of "tension" in our diving habits. If that means doing a comprehensive pre-dive check with your buddy, then go for it. If that means adopting a 5-10 ft. buddy separation distance, then so be it. If that means doing an air-sharing drill with a buddy at the beginning of every dive, then do it. I don't see why having fun and being safe should ever be mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure how to continue my participation in the thread. I consider myself a safe diver, been doing it for quite a long time.
I understand my gear and keep it in good working order, I know myself and listen to my body. I know my limits as a diver, specially during my aging process.

I guess I just don't get the modern buddy system, produces more questions than answers for me. Do dives in general NEED to be that close because they can't deal with their dive?... it was pointed out to me in another post about fallen masks, drop weights, a diver being "spooked". I'm not going to say those things can't happen ever, but there is something wrong with your routine if it happens with any frequency at all. And even when it does, unless you are a very very very new diver you should have enough knowledge to deal with it without needing a buddy within an instant.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm not sure how to continue my participation in the thread. I consider myself a safe diver, been doing it for quite a long time.

Ana, I often solo dive and I am a Solo Diving Instructor as well. I don't teach that to anyone with fewer than 200 dives, but quite often those taking my course are already diving solo. It's not for everyone, but there are a number of peeps who love it and are very safe divers.