How close your buddy vs Herd diving

[Ana]

Do both you and your husband carry a redundant gas supply? The reason I ask is that your style of diving is essentially solo diving. With buddy diving, the buddy carries the redundant gas supply.

not for this local dives, we don't do this for dives deeper than 100-120. Haven't done a penetration for the last 10 years besides a quick swim through, and make a point to stay away from deco obligations; I have unrestricted access to the surface on all my dives.

When you dive conditions that are different from your local waters (cold/temperate water, lower vis, night dive, unfamiliar dive site) do you adjust your buddy diving habits?

Definitely. My work takes me to many places where is possible for me to sneak a dive, same for my husband. We work for the same agency, unfortunately we don't get to travel together. But wherever we go, we try to make a dive or two. Those dives are with local charters and yes we have no choices but to adapt or miss the dive. I do make a point to make lots of questions in advance to be prepare.

Those are the times when I see the horrible state of diving today. Where dive operators insist in treating you as a drooling idiot. I can understand this is going to be a bad viz dive so be close to your buddy, not that I'll be able to be distracted if is bad viz anyways. I rather pay a little more and not go in a cattle boat so I can't tell you that I would be part of a dozen divers following a guide. I rather do a sand dive on my own that to see Atlantis as part of a boat full of divers in tight formation.

Besides the work trips, I'm getting to the realization that is better for us not to go on dive trips anymore. I do understand that a lake dive in Germany may require x, y and z, but my blood boils when I'm faced with an operator of a warm clear shallow place insisting in putting my fins, or telling me that I can't go with just my husband, or the plethora of silly things that operators come up with these days.

Thanks for sharing the info...

Well you're welcome, Thank you for reading. I'm not sure why would anyone care about my ways. I'm somehow abrasive in person and make a point to mind my own business. Some years ago I was considered very conservative among the divers I interacted with, my diving remains the same but now it seems like oooooomg I really push the envelope, but I'm not.... diving is not difficult if you like it in the water. I think the way I dive, my level of comfort and my knowledge should be the typical (if not the minimum) for every day divers... not what people point and whisper while hinting recklessness.

 

[SeahorseDeb]

NetDoc we were face to face at 30 feet getting ready to head off after our first group headed out. Wanted to put a little distance between them and us due to silting situtation. We follow a line our tek divers laid down, so need to keep an eye on the line, compass, buddy, pilings around us, etc. I had no sense this was going to happen except that it did happen to him two weeks ago only I wasn't his buddy at the time. So, I knew I needed to be right next to him and vigilant. And it bugs me if I have to keep looking around for a buddy. I am there to enjoy the experience and take in the scenery, even if it is only 8-10' vis. I'm not diving my plan if I have to keep looking for my buddy. I want them in my sight. So, prior dive history of this buddy led me to beleive that it was a situation that needed to be closely monitored. I've talked to one of the other divers (in our group of 4 that day) and he agrees with me on all counts. We've agreed that this diver is not yet ready to go deep ie.e over 40', or swimming in environments where there are docks 30' above. Prevention is in my blood. I'm only newly re-certified as of Aug '08 with 72 dives now albeit mostly in cold fresh water, but I read alot. Tek diving, cave diving, DAN's annual reports, they all teach me. And if only one of those stories helps me avoid a problem, the source did its job. I learn alot here too at Scubaboard. Love it!

 

[SeahorseDeb]

NetDoc, he patted his hand on his regulator which meant "share air." Then he spun around and took off on me. (The four of us originally swam straight out from the beach to find the line that takes a right hand turn. I wanted to let the first pair of divers get a 15 foot start on us in case there were any silting issues. That line leads under some docks to a small barge. The line is laid deep enough to avoid a hazard from a boat above. The tek divers did a great job laying the line. The overhead environment for part of the dive are public boat docks. No boats there now, but had it been busier in the summer.....don't want to take that chance. Ever.)

 

[The Chairman]

Cool, but were you swimming side by side? Was he in front or behind you. I'm missing that piece of info.

Also, I have not seen or heard of that signal for low air. The (almost) universal sign is a fist to the chest. I'll have to remember it if I ever see it.

It's incredibly important that you go over basic hand signs before you splash if your buddy is unfamiliar to you for this very reason.

 

[Gerbs]

Sorry about the delay in replying - been busy...

Dang Gerbs... sounds like too much work for me! Good luck with it!

As I said, it's harder to describe than to actually carry it out...

Thanks, I appreciate the detailed explanation; it definitely paints the whole picture. I get the feeling that is the best system for group dives under those conditions. You mentioned depth, fresh water lake with thermocline, made me wonder about visibility, but not a huge deal.

Now would you be adverse to completely change that system if the conditions are completely different? For example: a Caribbean shallow dive, with great viz and probably no thermocline?

The system wouldn't change overall, just that the distances between the teams would be greater, and the barrier to forming a new group would be lower from an experience stand point.

.... at that point either we anchor and both jump in or we dive one at a time with the person on the boat following the dive flag.
If we go together, we roll off the boat together, my husband shoots down to the bottom fairly quick, I take my time descending. When I reach the bottom he’s usually around, we acknowledge each other and tend to start together in one direction, from there we may separate for a s long as 10 minutes or so, maybe longer if spearing.

What you are describing is the Same Day-Same Ocean dive buddy principle. Effectively two divers doing a solo dive near each other.

...trip report...

Your description of the trip is a classic case of what happens when diametrically opposite buddy systems collide - and a prime example of why you need to talk before the dive to make sure that all divers in a group are on the same page (or able to regroup).

I don’t claim my way IS THE ONLY way, but I couldn’t follow your way for more than one dive. Actually I think I would pass even for that one dive, I would probably try to find a way to do the dive with just 1 person.

The way I described would be the group way of diving for groups larger than 2. So.. unless you were on your own, wishing to join us, and it's an instructor with two newbies on the group, you don't have to follow this system in any way, shape or form. Other than lending a hand guiding a newbie, or wanting to tag along for a first guided dive in the lake, there is no reason for you to want to join a group dive given the diving you describe as doing anyway.

Generally, because of the lower-vis deeper water diving where the VDST predominantly lurks, the buddy separation is quite close. Also, for hysterical (or was it historical, I can never remember ) reasons, there is no problem with 60m deep dives on air (ok, trimix is better, and 40m is enough, but there is nothing fundamentally wrong..), racking up 30 minutes of deco on a single tank, but if you go solo YOU WILL DIE!!!eleventy!!, so the buddy system is fairly regimented (hey, it's Germany, after all).

( Since people who dive solo are by this definition mad, and mad people have voices in their heads, they are no longer solo... problem solved )

Oh, and yes, the Verein Deutscher SportTaucher can in some cases be legitimately called the Very Dangerous Scuba Tourists...

There is actually a course "Group Leadership" which is a requirement to advance beyond Level 1. Quick aside on the CMAS/VDST system: three levels of diver, 1,2 and 3. Recommendation is that each buddy pair contains at least one level 2, the levels sum to 4 or more unless depth is shallower than 20m. When organising dives with friends, some people are actually rumoured to rigidly apply these rules, and, this being rules happy Germany, I can believe this. Most people don't care and go diving.

Effectively, the going diving is the important bit, and as long as all divers in a group or buddy pair agree on what they are doing (and know what they are in for), the only people having problems and want to impose their way can filed under "nuisance" or "insurance regulators", but I repeat myself.

So... If you're diving with us (as opposed to diving the same site at the same time), chances are, it's be:

<------
n1...You
*

If you've been doing solo dives and survived, chances are you know enough to qualify as experienced, so you are your own buddy team. If you stay within signalling range (which below the thermocline is ~30m) you're part of the group (and therefore not solo for insurance reasons, if, for some reason you get dive insurance from the VDST while you are over here).

Who said we don't use sense when applying rigidly oppressive rules?

Gerbs

 

[fellowtraveler44]

Ana,

... But every year there are hundreds of diving related deaths and many more serious injuries.

I think your numbers are inaccuarate. The latest data I saw from DAN reports less than 100 per year.

 

[Ana]

( Since people who dive solo are by this definition mad, and mad people have voices in their heads, they are no longer solo... problem solved )

thanks again, for taking the time to reply.

Love that attitude about non-solo diving... and all this time I though the voices came from fish around me.

Enjoy your dives.

 

[Gerbs]

thanks again, for taking the time to reply.

Love that attitude about non-solo diving... and all this time I though the voices came from fish around me.

Enjoy your dives.

No problem, glad to be of service! Enjoy your dives likewise. Talking about different ways of diving helps broaden horizons.

Gerbs

 

[SeahorseDeb]

NetDoc,We were side by side but looking at each other. I was asking him if he was okay to "go."

 

[The Chairman]

Excellent... side by side makes communication both ways so much easier! You cover more territory too and get to call each over to see your "finds".