How close your buddy vs Herd diving

[Haiko]

I always have a chat with a new insta-buddy, what his experience is, how close we are sticking together and on what side of eachother etc. If we stick to that, we know where the other is in case we need support. If I have a buddy I know (and the way he dives) I'll tell him to do this thing, but be aware of where I am. I'll keep an eye on him anyway, but that's just what a DM does.

Once I had a buddy who stayed a bit too close with me during the dive (although we did talk about it during the buddycheck), did not stay on one side, was almost on top of me the whole time did not pay attention and I almost lost my mask and reg due to his "superb" fin-technique. Even when I tried to get away from him a bit further, swimming away from him, using handsignals etc he did not understand. After the dive I told him about it and preferred him to stay a bit further away from me. Not too far ofcouse, but I'll need my space I'll guess...

I don't like herd-dives, as it gets confusing who is who, esp. in low viz. But try to stay away from the crouds, cause they scare the fish...

 

[The Chairman]

I'm shocked that an instructor gives these recommendations to his students. It may be useful as a rule of thumb, but the risk is that the students neglect the #1 reason for staying close to a buddy.

I fail to see what is so shocking. They have to be able to touch their buddy in either 5 seconds or 10 seconds depending on the clarity. If you can't be without air for 10 seconds (including locating your buddy), then you have bigger issues than buddy management.

 

[The Chairman]

I hope it leads to you sharpening those gas management skills as well!NetDoc

lol. I understand your point, Doc, but that wasn't really the problem since I still had 2000 psi in my tank when the situation occurred. I was using a rental tank (but all my own equipment otherwise), inverted to snap a few pictures, and the next thing I knew I wasn't getting enough air. It seems the visual inspection protocols down there aren't enforced quite like they are in other places, because I had debris in my tank. I STILL don't know exactly how to prevent that from happening again other than be more careful who I book charters with.

Thanks for clearing that up! Please check the sintered filter in your first stage inlet for residual debris. That debris can get quite impacted and you don't want it there.

 

[The Chairman]

I think the 10 second rule that someone else mentioned only works for the lead diver. The guy that is behind or above or below can get in trouble way too fast and fall out of the lead diver's crosscheck way too easily to be that far away.

Lead diver? Unless you are in a cave or other Overhead environment which restricts passage, you should be side by side. You shouldn't be in an overhead environment at all if you haven't passed the class and are in a proper frame of mind.

Please practice good situational awareness. Know where your buddy is at all times. Hopefully, this will always be to your left or your right (I hate it when they can't make up their minds here). Move at the same speed: the speed of the slowest diver! Listen to how your buddy breathes. How does he sound? What is his frequency of breathing? Can you still hear him? Does his breathing sound calm or anxious? Glance over at him frequently. How is his diving? How is his equipment? Are there any danglies or leaks? Maybe you should tell them early on BEFORE you have an emergency situation? Odds are, if you can't hear your buddy, you have become separated. Find them now before you NEED to find them!

 

[Crowley]

When I am teaching or guiding (I work in a busy resort environment) I teach the buddy system but I do not insist in a regimented 2 by 2 by 2 dive formation. The vis here is good and inevitably there are divers who get... hmmm ... shall we say "distracted". I teach and brief that buddies should stay together of course, but I also brief that if there are 5 people in the water then we are all one big "buddy team". This means that everybody is aware that should they have a problem, they can reach for the nearest diver, not assume they really have to get to the person they were paired up with. This relieves some stress when the inevitable buddy separation occurs.

In some environments this would neither be practical nor safe, but it works well for me here (see the "herding cats" post in the going pro forum". Instead of one "insta-buddy" having to watch out for another, we are all looking out for each other. What I do is also tailored to the type of diver with whom I am diving. If I have a group of relative novices I ask that everybody dive (where possible) with their SPG facing outwards, so I can read their air supply without having to ask, in order to "keep the group together" if people have varying air consumption rates. Of course, I am also checking to make sure we avoid the out of air situations where a buddy becomes a spare air supply.

If conditions are not so easy, then of course I am much more strict as a dive guide / instructor about who goes where and what sort of separation is acceptable.

The short answer being it varies depending on the divers and the evironment in which they are diving.

Safe diving,

C.

 

[Web Monkey]

I fail to see what is so shocking. They have to be able to touch their buddy in either 5 seconds or 10 seconds depending on the clarity. If you can't be without air for 10 seconds (including locating your buddy), then you have bigger issues than buddy management.

If you want to see the longest 10 seconds of your life, try swimming into the current until you're breathing hard, then stop breathing and try to make it to your buddy who is "upstream" and "10 seconds away".

I was a fan of "not too far away" until my deco instructor had us do the above exercise. "Buddy distance" shrank quite a bit right after that.

I might be overly conservative, but whether it's a pony or my buddy, I want to know that my next breath is always within grabbing distance.

Terry

 

[Ana]

My interpretation of the buddy system is that you should be no farther away than what would allow you to touch your buddy with no more than two or three fin kicks. And for the majority of the time, you should be able to touch your buddy to get his attention without moving at all.

The things that can happen, the speed with which they can happen, and the lack of normal communication capability dictate that buddies should be quite close at all times.

I think the 10 second rule that someone else mentioned only works for the lead diver. The guy that is behind or above or below can get in trouble way too fast and fall out of the lead diver's crosscheck way too easily to be that far away.

JMHO

At all times be able to touch your buddy without moving.

I'm trying to digest the meaning of this sentence and just thinking about it, I get a feeling of claustrophobia by the encroachment on my personal space. I wouldn't mind being inside a confined space but another person so close?

Please help me understand. Let's say you and your buddy are diving a reef, make it a shallow one... a little bit of current, nothing excessive but is there. You are going with the current and you see a whatever that calls your attention, is nothing to write a report about but it just called your attention. If you stop to look your buddy has to stop too? Even if you only wanted to stop for 7 seconds and keep going?

The whole duration of the dive, you and your buddy remain that close? Is this the way most of the people dive now?

You mentioned "lead diver' crosscheck". This would be in the case of a group dive, correct? Maybe I don't get it because I think of this as a group going to a restaurant, someone may lead the way to the table but only I decide the way I'm going to eat my food.

Would you mind expanding on this some more, I'm truly curious. I believe I'm over thinking what you said, and making a ridiculous picture in my mind.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I fail to see what is so shocking. They have to be able to touch their buddy in either 5 seconds or 10 seconds depending on the clarity. If you can't be without air for 10 seconds (including locating your buddy), then you have bigger issues than buddy management.

@NetDoc: I'm not comfortable being as far as a 10 second swim away from my buddy. I guess I have "bigger issues than buddy management" (whatever that is). Are you implying that I'm inadequately trained and/or not comfortable in the water?

When an OW student asks how far away he should be from his buddy, try this exercise: Have one buddy pair of your OW students work together with another buddy pair. Position one buddy pair a "10 second swim" away (let's say it's a "hard" 10 second swim) from the other. Have one group face the opposite direction. Then have the other group exhale completely (fake like they tried to inhale but couldn't) and swim to the "facing away" group. Let them make up their own minds about appropriate buddy distance. I suspect that "10 seconds" will shrink to 3 to 4 seconds in most cases.

During night dives in which both buddies are carrying strong dive lights, I have no problem getting my buddy's attention very quickly. I shake my light back and forth across her light beam. In "good vis" diving during the day, it can be very difficult getting her attention. For this reason, I tend to stay fairly close to my buddy even in "good vis" conditions. Judicious use of a noisemaker might be helpful under such circumstances.

I think the 5 or 10 second rule can lull the OW student into a false sense of security. You may want to reconsider teaching that. But what do I know? I have no experience at all teaching scuba diving to students. Perhaps I'm just an overly conservative worrywart. Perhaps I'm just a crappy diver. Perhaps I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

Lead diver? Unless you are in a cave or other Overhead environment which restricts passage, you should be side by side. You shouldn't be in an overhead environment at all if you haven't passed the class and are in a proper frame of mind.

Ever dive in kelp? Single file movement is often necessary. Entanglement potential is high. Extricating oneself from kelp usually isn't a big deal, but there can be stuff that gets caught in that kelp (fishing line, etc.). Vis can often be low. In such conditions, if I'm the "lead diver," I find myself looking back after every kick at times. It takes constant vigilance to prevent buddy separation. Yet another reason to dive closer than a "5 to 10 second" swim away IMHO. I don't know about everyone else, but I can swim quite a distance in 5-10 seconds.

 

[Gerbs]

The way dive leadership (and, by extension, group diving) is taught by VDST/CMAS here in .de is as follows:

There is one person who leads the dive.
If he/she/it leads more than two divers, buddy teams are formed.
Each buddy team has a leader, decided by seniority or by men amongst themselves.
Buddy teams do not change unless directed (and accepted by all involved) or an emergency occurs.
Buddy teams stay together. If separated (within the team), lost buddy protocol is followed, and the leader is signalled.
If buddy teams separate (intact teams), then the dive proceeds independently.

Wandering around in a large group without structure is frowned upon (too much liability for the leader), and emphasis is placed on staying in a predictable spot (to the right or to the left) of the buddy team leader, as well as keeping order (Team 1, 2 and 3 to stay roughly in order).

Yup, it's a bit rigid, but funnily enough, it works. Requires a bit of discipline, though. Biggest group size is usually 5, after that, there is enough experienced people to form a new group, or you need more experienced people... to form a new group with the newbies.

Gerbs - understands that buddy discipline makes things easier in the greater scheme of things

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

If you want to see the longest 10 seconds of your life, try swimming into the current until you're breathing hard, then stop breathing and try to make it to your buddy who is "upstream" and "10 seconds away".

I was a fan of "not too far away" until my deco instructor had us do the above exercise. "Buddy distance" shrank quite a bit right after that.

I might be overly conservative, but whether it's a pony or my buddy, I want to know that my next breath is always within grabbing distance.

Terry

1+

You are not overly conservative Terry. That is the correct, safe procedure whether it involves a stage, pony, or a "tank with fins" (your buddy ).

Even in Hawaii's warm, clear water, I "train" my buddies to stay well within "one breath" from me, and vice versa. This equal about 1 body length, or less.

In about 35 years of diving, the only time (other than solo) where separation is greater is when spearing.... and even then we often dove "shooter / spotter" so the non-shooter would still be close behind, and "within one breath".

Best wishes.