General Vortex Incident Discussion

[The Kraken]

ROV's can't do frog kicks.
Also, ROV's are propeller driven and are notorious for kicking up silt.

the K

 

[Dive-aholic]

I have been through this lengthy thread twice, and I am very confused. At first, those on scene were reporting that there was evidence that the diver passed through the very tight restriction, and that he had to be in the cave. What this evidence was remained cryptic in the posts, but I assumed that there were scrape/claw markings in the clay that showed passage of the diver into the restriction. Now these same people are saying that they now do NOT think the diver is in the cave. What gives? What made you change your minds?

It's not the same people saying that.

Has the Navy base in Panama City Beach been contacted and involved in this search? The base includes both the Naval Surface Warfare Center Panama City Division (NSWC-PCD) and the Navy Experimental Diving Unit (NEDU). NSWC-PCD has remote (and autonomous) vehicles with cameras, sonar and chemical sensors while NEDU has diver deployed sensors.

Completely different training and environment. Those divers aren't trained in cave diving, and those ROVs aren't designed for that environment.

dibs on the ROV once it gets lost/stuck in the cave

You have to beat me to it, first!

 

[LiteHedded]

dang. there goes that idea...

 

[Rick Murchison]

What is around Vortex? If the truck was left behind where could he have gone and died on foot? Bus? Kidnapped?

Well, if you wanted to fake your demise in a cave diving mishap, you'd have to leave your vehicle, wallet, logbook etc behind, wouldn't you? And you'd probably hint to someone that you were going diving, but no one too close to the scene, so you could get a decent day or two head start. And you'd have to have alternate transportation already arranged, wouldn't you? Notes in a left-behind logbook indicating you were going to dive the cave at the same time you planned to disappear could really keep the search in the wrong place for a while, eh?
It may be time (and I imagine the local law is already doing it) to pursue this mystery along different lines... follow the money & all that stuff.
If the question becomes "why would he abandon a nice truck he was a few thousand upside down on?" then there are new and better answers, eh?
Personally I still think he's in that hole somewhere, buried under a slide.
But a growing number of folks actually doing the searching are of a different opinion, apparently.
Rick

 

[rjack321]

Buried in the cave
Suicide outside somewhere
Dead from foul play somewhere
Alive but hiding somewhere

Provide quite a few avenues for the little old sheriff to address.

 

[Moonglow]

There is a moment when those rescue divers, who have been to every nook and cranny in that cave, know for a fact that there is no body to be found - has that moment been reached?

 

[ScubaGypsy]

dibs on the ROV once it gets lost/stuck in the cave

ROV's can't do frog kicks.
Also, ROV's are propeller driven and are notorious for kicking up silt.

ROVs, as well as probes and line sensors, can be used to sweep an area for its acoustic, magnetic, biological and chemical profiles in addition to the underwater optical and thermal cameras. These same sensors can be placed with manned and unmanned systems in a variety of geometric packages. Both of the referenced Commands at Panama City have these and other tools available to determine if there is a decomposing body located within.

So, has the Navy been contacted to help with the search?

 

[Jax]

ROVs, as well as probes and line sensors, can be used to sweep an area for its acoustic, magnetic, biological and chemical profiles in addition to the underwater optical and thermal cameras. These same sensors can be placed with manned and unmanned systems in a variety of geometric packages. Both of the referenced Commands at Panama City have these and other tools available to determine if there is a decomposing body located within.

So, has the Navy been contacted to help with the search?

Discaimer - not a cave diver, nor recovery specialist, nor Navy . . . I work for the Army.

Usually in these cases someone in authority, such as a State Senator, would ask the Dept of Defense to provide assistance. At that point, DoD tasks DoN tasks . . . down the chain of command.

Now, to get to the Senator takes a large donator, or the sheriff or the mayor talking up their chain of command. This sheriff doesn't seem to be there, yet.

 

[ScubaGypsy]

A Command can also become involved in searches if requested by local investigating authorities as a token of goodwill. Furthermore in this case, it had been reported that the FBI has been involved although their level of participation is unknown. The FBI can certainly approach the Navy for assistance, which has possibly already been done.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Anyone else think spending thousands and thousands of taxpayer dollars for this idea is stupid??