General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

SPD, I wonder if the lack of smell or taste in this situation might yield a high false negative result when using this method to determine the presence of a body. I have no objective research to support this statement, other than my own anecdotal evidence. I have been involved with the underwater recovery of 9 bodies. 6 of these were fairly advanced in their state of decomposition. I noticed a "taste" on 4 of these decomp. cases, but did not on the other 2 decomps. The four I "tasted" were in stagnant/slow moving water, whereas the decomps that I did not taste were in water with a slow to moderate current (of course, once brought out of the water, there was considerable bad odor on all decomps). On one of the cases, I did not touch the body after locating it (one of the "no tasters") and when I exited the water, my gear had no appreciable odor. The flow I have experienced in my previous trips to Vortex in certain areas was faster than the flow rate I experienced with the recoveries where I did not taste decomposition. I wonder if the flow in Vortex could possibly have kept the recovery divers you mention from having this very unpleasant and unforgetable experience.

In Vortex, the cave is basically a single tunnel and it is not very big. It is biggest before the gate and that is about the size of a garage door. At then end of the long restriction it get a bit larger for a minute, just before going deep. There is not much to be missed in a search. I guess anything is possible, but in that small contained environment I would think the odor would be prevelant. In this case, it would seem, there is no odor, no body, and nowhere else to check in the cave.

The word "Hoax" has been used some and that makes me think about the balloon boy incident. Hoax may be a little strong. It may be more of a disapperaing act for whatever reasons with no ill intent meant for others. If the "stories" of his making peace with loved ones and kinda saying goodbye are true then the search is already leading elsewhere and we are not privy to that. It is very sad that family and friends are always the real victims in cases like this. Not knowing leaves such a sad hole in their lives that they have to deal with until there is an answer. My thoughts are with the family as they have more questions then answers. I hope the Sheriff's Office can find something to ease their pain.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... advanced decomp that you'll carry those odors, tastes ... with you till you yourself are laid to rest...

Well I don't know 'bout "till you yourself are laid to rest" but I can affirm that the odor sticks to your smell receptors and that absolutely everything you eat for a month or so will taste like what you smelled. It is a very unpleasant experience indeed, especially when you see what you smelled, and when that's a person.
Rick

 

[rjack321]

The word "Hoax" has been used some and that makes me think about the balloon boy incident. Hoax may be a little strong. It may be more of a disapperaing act for whatever reasons with no ill intent meant for others. If the "stories" of his making peace with loved ones and kinda saying goodbye are true then the search is already leading elsewhere and we are not privy to that. It is very sad that family and friends are always the real victims in cases like this. Not knowing leaves such a sad hole in their lives that they have to deal with until there is an answer. My thoughts are with the family as they have more questions then answers. I hope the Sheriff's Office can find something to ease their pain.

What is around Vortex? If the truck was left behind where could he have gone and died on foot? Bus? Kidnapped?

 

[Jax]

Well I don't know 'bout "till you yourself are laid to rest" but I can affirm that the odor sticks to your smell receptors and that absolutely everything you eat for a month or so will taste like what you smelled. It is a very unpleasant experience indeed, especially when you see what you smelled, and when that's a person.
Rick

I salute those of you that do body recovery.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

What is around Vortex? If the truck was left behind where could he have gone and died on foot? Bus? Kidnapped?

NFL woods.. maybe the mosquitos got him?

 

[diverdoug1]

I have been through this lengthy thread twice, and I am very confused. At first, those on scene were reporting that there was evidence that the diver passed through the very tight restriction, and that he had to be in the cave. What this evidence was remained cryptic in the posts, but I assumed that there were scrape/claw markings in the clay that showed passage of the diver into the restriction. Now these same people are saying that they now do NOT think the diver is in the cave. What gives? What made you change your minds?

Also, in reference to persistently smelling the odors associated with demoposition, I have found that after being around decomps, wearing a surgical mask sprinkled with oil of wintergreen for about an hour will "cleanse" the smell from your sinuses (although you now will be smelling wintergreen for the next day or so).

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Some people went further, later and found no trace of passage. Trace of passage earlier on may or may not have been from the lost diver in question anyway.

 

[ScubaGypsy]

Has the Navy base in Panama City Beach been contacted and involved in this search? The base includes both the Naval Surface Warfare Center Panama City Division (NSWC-PCD) and the Navy Experimental Diving Unit (NEDU). NSWC-PCD has remote (and autonomous) vehicles with cameras, sonar and chemical sensors while NEDU has diver deployed sensors.

 

[LiteHedded]

dibs on the ROV once it gets lost/stuck in the cave

 

[BDSC]

I can't stop looking at Jax's avatar.