General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Jax]

Hmmm, what do you think the costs will be if someone dies doing a search? Is there no value to the taxpayers to determine if there is a decomposing body in the cave? How much is the unknown costing the investigation, much less Vortex?

Does your Army Command not get involved in off-base issues when their technical assistance is requested by local authorities? This is common with the Navy.

fftopic:

DoD assistance to the to the local governement is covered in National Defense Policy and anything done I can assure you is covered by legal Memorandums of Agreement and Memorandums of Understanding, if your navy componant is actually assisting so darned often.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Wasn't there a cadaver dog alert?

Yes from what I understand. However these dogs were NOT certified for water usage, I know some are specially trained for water searches. SPD could probably elaborate on the differences. I did know that existed t be honest but I do now.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Have some questions I don't think have come up in the previous 10 million or so posts!

Can someone confirm he was diving air? What was in the "deco" tanks. Was it 50% and 100% or was it more air?

If he was attempting this dive just on air then the deco would rapidly get huge. What would be the run time to EOL without accelerated deco?

I don't know what was in his deco tanks, but he wasn't trained or certified for anything over 40%. So, unless he drove to High Springs, he very likely did not get anything over 40% filled unless he had access to the banks in the Destin shop and was able to fill his own tanks.

The EOL is about 1500' back. At best with a 30 minute penetration and 30 minute exit, he would have had 2 hours of deco on 40%, 5.5 hours on air. That's only 6 AL80s for someone with an RMV of .6. But it's a long time to spend in 68 degree water in a dry suit, never mind a wet suit!

 

[ianr33]

Thanks Rob

What happened to his tanks that were in the water? Did anyone analyze them?

 

[LiteHedded]

thought I heard 32%

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Yes from what I understand. However these dogs were NOT certified for water usage, I know some are specially trained for water searches. SPD could probably elaborate on the differences. I did know that existed t be honest but I do now.

This can explain it better than I can. there is a lot of good stuff on the web to school you in the differences and capabilities.

Cadaver Dogs: Capabilities: Illinois Search Dogs

 

[Zinc]

I'd like to know more about all 3 bottles found: size, contents, how they are rigged, and location where each was found.

Do the two tanks found in the basin (or wherever) match the "side-mount" nitrox bottles w/ tank boots seen in the video?

Could he swim in, drop a deco bottle, swim out and drop his "side-mount" tanks, boots and all and just leave by foot, friend, staged vehicle, spaceship, whatever...

Do the three bottles equate to his total "known" rig (SM doubles & deco)?

How many 1st stage regulators did he own?

That's three 1st stages already on the bottles found and this guy is only AOW. He'd have to have spent, rent, or borrowed a lot more to get the regulators needed to push farther back, and for what possible reason would you leave tanks in the basin?

There would surely be records of purchase receipts, or if rental or borrowed, the owner would've come forward by now. Interviews w/ dive buddies, if any could reveal this...

Course "in-the-cave" speculators could claim that he secretly purchased 3-4 more 1st stages online w/ cash so it would be anonymous and there would be no record...

And if the smallest point is 8" and he took smaller tanks... just how many 40cuft bottles and regulators would that take?


If we've already found his known existing equipment (pure speculation), like 3 first stages, 3 tanks, etc., then where did the equipment come from to get him farther back in the cave than is currently possible?

Until there is information that it's reasonably possible he had the physical/material capability that closes the "cave option" by logical reason in my speculative head.

I am open to consider differing opinions... but I do not support risking more lives in pursuit of the illogical.

Hey, look on the bright side, I'm now speculating that he could possibly still be alive...

 

[bigken462]

Ironically since it was mentioned several times, the guy that jumped out and crashed his airplane to fake his own death just plead guilty today for his crimes.

 

[ucfdiver]

I don't know what was in his deco tanks, but he wasn't trained or certified for anything over 40%. So, unless he drove to High Springs, he very likely did not get anything over 40% filled unless he had access to the banks in the Destin shop and was able to fill his own tanks.

The EOL is about 1500' back. At best with a 30 minute penetration and 30 minute exit, he would have had 2 hours of deco on 40%, 5.5 hours on air. That's only 6 AL80s for someone with an RMV of .6. But it's a long time to spend in 68 degree water in a dry suit, never mind a wet suit!

Are we sure he didn't go to the Mill Pond? I've never been asked for a card to get oxygen at any shop in Florida.

 

[diverdoug1]

When has that ever stopped them?

EDIT: Asked before, but for someone familar with the area. Are there any nearby (like in walking, floating distance) sinks or holes, sidemount or otherwise, that he might have gone into?

Depends on what you consider walking distance. To my knowledge, there are 3 within 2.5 miles, but only one that I know of that is within 1 mile (a very small one, that is easily searched in a quick dive). This sink is clear of corpses as of 2 weeks ago. This sink is only penetrable for about 70 feet, and SM only, and on private property. No evidence of a direct connection to the Vortex system. If there is insufficient evidence to detrermine that the person in question is in the Vortex system, then I think there is no reason to limit the search for him to underwater environments. It would be really great if this turns out to ba a hoax. Better to face the law, disappointed family, and a disgruntled dive community than scrape limestone while drowning.