General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Jax]

Yes, unless he took it off to get through the hole then put it back on. That's why I was wondering about the size of the hole.

One of you sidemount divers please correct me -- Isn't the above like super way more further advanced than the missing diver? As in, a few really experienced full cave guys might do this?

 

[ucfdiver]

One of you sidemount divers please correct me -- Isn't the above like super way more further advanced than the missing diver? As in, a few really experienced full cave guys might do this?

There's a difference between show should be doing and who does it.

Anyone can take it off and put it back on, that's not hard. Consistently living through it is another story.

I bet I could make it to the end of Ginnie without a line (4200ft), but how many times will I live to talk about it? Probly a few dozen, but not if I do it long enough. Look at Bruce who died visual jumping all over Ginnie last year.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Yes, unless he took it off to get through the hole then put it back on. That's why I was wondering about the size of the hole.

Ah, good point! Although I think someone said earlier that 8" tanks would not fit through. Perhaps he could have had smaller ones though; I'm not very familiar with the selection of tanks available.

 

[bigken462]

I can see the headlines on the tabloids now "PHANTOM OF THE SCUBA SOAP OPERA GETS SUCKED INTO THE VORTEX BY ALIENS!!"

Lol, and they thought my comment about him needing to take up banjo playing if he were found on the lamb was insensitive. lol.

 

[Divedoggie]

If you read the comments below the news story, the second to last comment is as follows:

Experts Don't Believe Missing Diver is Actually in Cave at Vortex Springs

Posted by: Shelby McDaniel Location: Collierville, Tn on Sep 13, 2010 at 11:24 PM

"It is apparent to me that reporter, Meagan O'Halloran is being informed by Vortex Management ideas to plant in peoples minds purposely trying to get everyone to thinking the unthinkable and unrealistic notion my son is not even in the cave-----which is absurb and riduculous. The situation whould have been avoided altogether if the employee who opened the gate for Ben as Ben was entering and the employee was exiting if the employee had stopped Ben immediately and escorted him out. And to AL suggesting a stupid Houdini trick, you have a warped sense of humor and you must not care for human life or you must not have kids or you would exhaust every means possibe to recover them. I feel sorry for you."

I feel terrible for the family, but there still seems to be extremely different views of this story. There is implied fault with Vortex Springs employee, and denial of facts concerning tampered gate. Above all is the absolute denial of the expert's opinions concerning missing diver NOT being in the cave. I fear that this is all far from over, that the family will beg to have divers continue into the cave looking for a body, and that they will produce one, in the form of a would be recovery hero.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

That was a big IF. Nothing at this point says anything was done intentionally.

No, the only thing we know for a fact is that he intentionally was diving in a cave without the proper training. Obviously, this behavior puts ones life at risk, and those who might come looking for them.

Seems like this type of behavior happens often at Vortex - though not to the extent of proceeding past the grate. Each time I drive to Florida I stop at Vortex at least on the way out to give my gear a good flushing from any salt water dives I have done. And each time I see at least one instance of diver(s) coming out of the tunnel who bare no resemblance to a trained cave diver. i.e. BCD, snorkel, single regs, split fins, and tilling the soil with their kicks.

 

[KY_BOB]

I bet I could make it to the end of Ginnie without a line (4200ft), but how many times will I live to talk about it? Probly a few dozen, but not if I do it long enough. Look at Bruce who died visual jumping all over Ginnie last year.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am not a cave diver, but I have taken a cavern class. The first question that the instructor as me was "do you need a line to dive into a cavern/cave?"

The answer is "NO, but you might need it to get back out."

Your post reminded me of that question.

 

[cruiser]

This is so sad but can we really expect a mom(?) in this much grief, believing her son is dead in the cave, to be thinking rationally? Not today, not tomorrow, but maybe somewhere down the road she will. Many parents go to their grave never believing or accepting the facts about how their child perished. It's natural for her to make Ben's death everyone else's fault at this stage and I hope she has a strong community to support her during this ordeal.

If you read the comments below the news story, the second to last comment is as follows:

Experts Don't Believe Missing Diver is Actually in Cave at Vortex Springs

Posted by: Shelby McDaniel Location: Collierville, Tn on Sep 13, 2010 at 11:24 PM

"It is apparent to me that reporter, Meagan O'Halloran is being informed by Vortex Management ideas to plant in peoples minds purposely trying to get everyone to thinking the unthinkable and unrealistic notion my son is not even in the cave-----which is absurb and riduculous. The situation whould have been avoided altogether if the employee who opened the gate for Ben as Ben was entering and the employee was exiting if the employee had stopped Ben immediately and escorted him out. And to AL suggesting a stupid Houdini trick, you have a warped sense of humor and you must not care for human life or you must not have kids or you would exhaust every means possibe to recover them. I feel sorry for you."

I feel terrible for the family, but there still seems to be extremely different views of this story. There is implied fault with Vortex Springs employee, and denial of facts concerning tampered gate. Above all is the absolute denial of the expert's opinions concerning missing diver NOT being in the cave. I fear that this is all far from over, that the family will beg to have divers continue into the cave looking for a body, and that they will produce one, in the form of a would be recovery hero.

 

[BDSC]

As usual, it's always someone elses fault.

 

[lurk-n-learn]

I do not think they are denying that Ben died because he did something he was untrained to do. What is probably the most upsetting are the stupid comments about being "houdini" and the stupid "phantom" comment. I do not think they are blaming anyone except their son. They do point out safeguards that possibly could have prevented this from happening. People make wrong assumptions about other people all the time. Just take for example the fun being poked at "deepswim" when this guy clearly has a language barrier and cannot communicate what he is trying to in a way that is totally understandable.
You know what they say about "ass"umptions.....
Shelby is the father btw......