Fundies kicked my a$$

[scubadobadoo]

Mossman, in real life I imagine you are likely a nice enough fellow. One I imagine wouldn't stop on the side of the street to throw rocks at a group of people hugging, even if the group were members of a "church or cult" group because you didn't like what or how they were taught. So why do it now here on SB? That is basically what you did. Why, as a dive educator yourself, would you choose that path even if it is easier on a message board?

If you are going to stick to that path then simply start a new thread and call it, "I HATE DIR" and I am sure you will get what you are looking for.

I do have the same question for you though. Assuming a new diver asked you and looked up to you as a dive educator, is there not one single positive outcome you can imagine and concede from taking a Fundies class? Not one positive thing without being silly with your answer?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

:shocked2:

And you say you weren't affected by the cult?

Of course, that doesn't answer the question. You made a claim.

There was plenty of "compliant gear" manufactured at the time

Which gear was available at the time that was DIR compliant? You claim there was plenty ... name them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

:shocked2:

And you say you weren't affected by the cult?

Well I took DIRF (the precursor to GUEF) back in 2003 when...

Oxycheq didn't exist
DSS didn't exist
Golem didn't exist
OMS existed and their wings (for instance) were a mess with 3ft long inflators and bungies on alot of them.
DiveRite existed and their wings were ok also except for the really long inflators.
I wasn't even on SB to have resources outside of local divers to ask. I don't think TDS existed or if it did I didn't know about it.

So I bought a Halcyon wing after class, there wasn't much else ready to go out of the box. And with 250dives I didn't want to mess with replacing pull dump inflators with standard elbows and buying a shorter inflator hose for a brand new wing. I think the stock DiveRite ones at that time reached to my waist.

I used a DiveRite 10W HID in DIRF class and nobody said boo then. And won't today either...
I bought a generic steel plate after class and later a DiveRite Ali plate. No critique of either in Tech1,Cave1,Cave2.

You've already demonstrated your ignorance; you are not making headway here.

 

[Crush]

Thanks to all those who have sent congratulations. I am still reading this thread but ignoring the bickering. I just wanted so share the following email:

Dear [my name is here]

This is a message to let you know that a GUE Fundamentals certification has just been issued for you.
Your certification card is now in queue to be printed and when it is done it will be sent to your postal address.This is the address that will be used:
[my address is here]

If this is not your current address, please go to...​

arty:

 

[Rainer]

Congrats, Crush!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you are going to stick to that path then simply start a new thread and call it, "I HATE DIR" and I am sure you will get what you are looking for.

There already is such a thread ... perhaps we can get some kind moderator to split Mossman's hijack and the associated responses to that thread and leave this one here for its intended purpose ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mossman]

OMS existed and their wings (for instance) were a mess with 3ft long inflators and bungies on alot of them.
DiveRite existed and their wings were ok also except for the really long inflators.

Two fine examples. See also Seatec and AUL.

Of course part of DIR/GUE was saying something was wrong with the other guys' gear, buy Halcyon instead. It would have been simple to swap out inflator hoses if they were really just serious about gear configuration and not just selling gear, but there's far less profit in that.

 

[rjack321]

Two fine examples. See also Seatec and AUL.

Of course part of DIR/GUE was saying something was wrong with the other guys' gear, buy Halcyon instead. It would have been simple to swap out inflator hoses if they were really just serious about gear configuration and not just selling gear, but there's far less profit in that.

Right! Go to store, spend ~$275 on wing, special order different inflator hose, wait for UPS... Return to store weeks later. Pay more money for new shorter inflator hose. Now come home and spend couple hours to "fix" new gear. Spend >$300 + couple extras hours of time to end up with what you could buy off the rack for a similar price (at that time). Sounds like a great idea, not.

Oh and I have some AUL lights, horribly fragile compared to DiveRite, Halcyon, and Salvo which I also own...

If this were another forum your trolls would be less "gently" addressed. If you hate GUE so much you might want to quit now since your traffic and our reasoned corrections are doing nada for your position.

 

[Mossman]

Right! Go to store, spend ~$275 on wing, special order different inflator hose, wait for UPS... Return to store weeks later. Pay more money for new shorter inflator hose. Now come home and spend couple hours to "fix" new gear. Spend >$300 + couple extras hours of time to end up with what you could buy off the rack for a similar price (at that time). Sounds like a great idea, not.

Huh? You mean, go to class, get told your old gear won't cut it because the inflator hose is too long, buy overpriced Halcyon or else see ya.

 

[beester]

Hi all I'm not posting this to convince anybody... that doesn't work But I am certain that some will recognize my experience, and some might get motivated by it. Let me tell you that I really like Gareth and NWGratefulls posts regarding this.

After a close call on a wreck I started diving doubles. After about a year of that I did some additional TDI courses but came out of (passed) with a feeling that I wasn't ready to apply what was in that curriculum. I started reading up on GUE and UTD.

Because of some black and white posts by some GUE affiniados I hesitated. So I got in touch with a C2T2 soon to be fundies instructor diver from a local CMAS club I know. Even though he was interning on fundies classes he still dives with CMAS divers, keeps in his CMAS club etc. So that put me a bit at ease.

I did my fundies (small post script... we did our fundies on AIR since there was no nitrox filling station) and I keep diving with my CMAS friends. They are definately not DIR, there is a lot of friendly jibbing regarding my setup and my "DIR" diving. But to be honest next to that friendly laughing about there is a slow cross polination happening. People ask if they can try my BP/W setup. They ask about procedures, frog kick... those light signals... etc and some start diving simular setups, some even want to take a fundies. Am I a DIR diver... I don't think so.. I aspire to be, but the majority of my dives is with non DIR buddies. Does this mean that I'm a traitor... for not following all little details... I don't think so. I know the buddies I wreck dive with. I know how they dive, plan, etc. So even though GUE/UTD teams would be as nice and maybe easier on planning it doesn't matter.

Obviously when I do my C1 it'll be with GUE divers.. and all subsequent cavedives will be with GUE trained buddies. Why... because until I'm experienced in cavediving I don't have a frame of reference with regard to cavediving so it's much easier diving with similar trained buddies. When you get that experience you can dive with others.

To give another example in the big leagues. A good friend of mine is no DIR diver. To be honest he dives a sidemount rig that he fabricated himself, a helmeth, 2 helmeth lights, wristpad, dives solo, etc. However certain members of the EKPP team have dived with him and take classes with him. How's that? Very simple he's in his field a big reference. He's a very experienced caver (as in speleo... not cavediving) and also a sidemount diver. Since these GUE guys needed roping skills to travers sumps they came to him. Since the type of diving he does involves crawling to very very tight spaces with zero visibility, sidemount solo is the way to go. And I'm quite sure that these EKPP guys are doing the same in these circumstances.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is simply... there is no black and white... just shades of grey. What GUE has done has given me on basic level some tools to make a diver easier and safer... plus giving me a bigger frame of reference. This enables me to make informed decisions. Does that mean that I'm a holistic DIR diver... no, but I aspire to be every dive

PS: I will keep looking at other agencies to see if the grass is greener on the other side.