DIR- Generic My "unusual" experience with DIR

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I don’t know why you’d want to be a DM personally unless you’re planning on having scuba as a job. Even then you’re just going to be another DM in a crowded market working for peanuts.


The GUE route is about gaining and refining personal in water skills to the point where you can if you want engage in cave and deep technical exploration.


Comparing the paths that ends with you teaching open water students for pennys to a path that ends with deep cave exploration just isn’t a valid comparison
 
I don’t know why you’d want to be a DM personally unless you’re planning on having scuba as a job. Even then you’re just going to be another DM in a crowded market working for peanuts.


The GUE route is about gaining and refining personal in water skills to the point where you can if you want engage in cave and deep technical exploration.


Comparing the paths that ends with you teaching open water students for pennys to a path that ends with deep cave exploration just isn’t a valid comparison
Thank you for your reply. Probably a reason is like, for the last twenty years or so, literally the majority of divers worldwide were certified by PADI - and for many who failed to do their own research PADI's route of OW - DM - Instructor is the only thing they know.

Given this and what you say on the second paragraph, I feel that many new OW/AOW divers did not train their skills because they think only a DM should "drill skills" - and many (A)OWs think they should not have the skill to operate dive independently. I've heard more than one such diver commenting 1) staying close to dive guide is enough to keep me alive, and 2) I paid the dive guide to deploy DSMB.
 
As others have said, I wouldn't worry too much about the comments you're getting. As a GUE diver I feel like I am equipped to dive with anyone, even though I prefer to dive with similarly trained divers. I feel confident and comfortable diving within my limits, and knowing I can be a good buddy. It's also given me the confidence to define what I'm comfortable with. If I'm diving with an inattentive buddy that I can't trust, I will dive more conservatively in terms of exposure, and sometimes it means I am "babysitting" or following someone around to avoid separation, thumbing the dive earlier, staying shallower etc. Obviously, it's more fun when I feel like we're a team, and I can focus on enjoying the dive.

In any case, don't mind the comments. It's just jealousy or ignorance. Be a good diver, a good buddy and show by example that GUE/DIR divers are helpful, friendly, competent and safe. If they still have problems with you, they're not worth dealing/diving with.

They only thing I would warn you about is that a lot of divers from other organizations will have other concepts of conservatism and safety. Always dive within your training and comfort level, and don't let yourself be bullied into doing something you don't feel like doing.
 
Thank you for your reply. Probably a reason is like, for the last twenty years or so, literally the majority of divers worldwide were certified by PADI - and for many who failed to do their own research PADI's route of OW - DM - Instructor is the only thing they know.

Given this and what you say on the second paragraph, I feel that many new OW/AOW divers did not train their skills because they think only a DM should "drill skills" - and many (A)OWs think they should not have the skill to operate dive independently. I've heard more than one such diver commenting 1) staying close to dive guide is enough to keep me alive, and 2) I paid the dive guide to deploy DSMB.
PADI stands for Professional Association of Diving Instructors.
So they pursue their goal, training people for becoming professional instructors and working in diving centers and holiday resorts.
Then, at a certain point, they did see the possibility to expand their activity working with diving shops.
Economically it was a wise choice for PADI, they decuplicated their revenue, making them the most widely known commercial agency for training scuba divers.
But they mantained their attitude towards professional instructors.
Which is not bad, I worked as a professional instructor in resorts in small Mediterranean islands and at Maldives for 5 years. Little money, but a wonderful life.
Not for everyone, of course.
So Padi is very good for people wanting to do this experience.
There are many other ways to dive. After concluding our experience as professional instructors, I and my wife made sons and spent years training them, in the pool and in the sea.
And after this, I switched to dive only as a scientific diver, as part of my work as a professor at the university.
I never switched to tech diving, which is whete GUE excels, simply because my CMAS recreational training and certifications did already include "light deco", "light cave", rebreathers and a dozen of other "specialties" which Padi certifies one by one.
So I did never feel compelled to go further. But I can see how GUE divers, fully trained for "full cave" or trimix, are more skilled than me.
Every diver should choose what kind of diving he wants to do, and train accordingly. I preferred to remain within Cmas limits for recreational diving, but I know many other divers who wanted more.
Some went to the (very dangerous) route of solo + rebreather.
Others preferred the (safer) DIR approach, focused on team operation, safety and standardisation.
Of course it also depends on the environment, the activity of local clubs or shops, knowing the good instructor, getting access to facilities as a diving center with compressor and boat, and getting well engaged with buddy divers.
It is very difficuly to suggest "the best way" of diving or training, not knowing all these local variables, and your preferences.
Every agency has its own highs and lows.
Padi is not as evil as many people here on SB think: they are a for-profit organisation which is very good selling a reliable, low-mid-quality service for an honest price.
They are like the Toyota.
Of course if you want a Lamborghini you should look elsewhere...
Cmas instead is a no-profit organisation providing an higher level training at a lower cost (as instructors are volunteers operating in clubs) but the variability is much larger and the time required for training is measured in months, instead of days.
GUE provides a top-notch service at higher price, with a very constant quality and very intense, short "full immersion" courses.
There are many other organizations and agencies operating differently.
As you see, the choice is ample, and each solution is not for everyone.
 
people said with such time I could have already become a DM or at least Rescue
Alright, maybe you could have been. However, that's only relevant if that's what you WANTED to do. If that wasn't your goal or pursuit all along, then who cares?

Quite often when I'm diving, I'm not obsessing over becoming an "Super Master Extreme Expert Diver." I do improve, and I care about safety. However, I haven't pursued any "tech" classes, despite probably being more than ready. That's not a big deal because I'm not a tech-diver. Perhaps I could have been a scuba-instructor by now if that's what I wanted to do, but being a scuba-instructor also isn't one of my goals.

What I care about is either having fun, finding underwater treasure, or being safe. If a class, technique, skill, etc isn't useful towards that goal, it's not on the top of my priority list. I might (or might not) do it anyway to improve, but it's fine if it takes some time.

a relative of mine (also a scuba diver plus freediver) even suggested I have been financially manipulated by this club and have become their revenue-generating machine.
It's difficult for me to judge remotely, whether that's true or not, and perhaps without also getting into "accounting" levels of detail.
why I did not buy some "standard scuba equipment", and instead buy something that could be "overcharged".
As I understand GUE, they all essentially run with nearly identical equipment, which has it's pros and cons. That probably means less shopping around. GUE isn't for me personally, because I'm an experimenter, and like trying lots of different things, refining, DIY, etc. I also understand the reasons why someone would want to go the GUE route and have highly standardized equipment.
hearing these words from other fellow divers make me sad
Why be sad?

Someone thinks you could have done things differently and may have been better off? Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong? It sounds like you've been learning, advancing, and enjoying yourself. How much is that worth, and does it matter what someone else thinks?
It would be fantastic if you guys could give me some feedback eg. whether to continue my current training scheme, or switch to a different route of diving.
I'm perhaps not qualified to answer this. However, I'll again emphasize that no matter the answer to this question, don't be sad.
 
Hey @L2m, you're getting some great answers comparing going the DM route vs GUE. I'm neither a DM nor a GUE diver (yet) so I can't add anything to that.

I wanted to make a different point that hopefully will help you prepare for your Fundamentals class and get the most out of it.

GUE Fundamentals is a really challenging class mentally Here are some things I wish someone told me before I took it recently:
  • Be prepared for the class to suck at times.
  • Be prepared for moments that make you want to quit.
  • Be prepared to feel like you're not good enough and diving might not be for you.
  • Be prepared to struggle with simple looking things.
  • Be prepared to find out you've been doing some things wrong.
  • Be prepared to not pass. Like "actually" prepared. How will that affect you? Will that make you give up diving?
  • Try not to think about the class 24/7 or you might burn out.
  • Have goals for the class that are not tied to receiving a pass. What skills you want to improve, etc. In fact, don't think about the outcome of the class at all.
I'm not saying this to discourage you from taking it. In fact, I think if you care about improving your diving skills GUE Fundamentals is the best thing you can do.

You mention in the OP that you've struggled with depression and diving is helping you deal with it. My situation is sorta similar. Unfortunately, I took fundies not mentally prepared for it and got really stressed out on the last day. I describe my struggles in detail in a post in this forum. I haven't been diving since and I'm pretty sure next time I go in the water I'll have some residual PTSD.

Don't make the mistakes I made and you'll have a great time. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
a relative of mine (also a scuba diver plus freediver) even suggested I have been financially manipulated by this club and have become their revenue-generating machine
I sometimes shared videos of my training and new equipments online and received some feedbacks questioning why I did not buy some "standard scuba equipment", and instead buy something that could be "overcharged".

I assume that a) you're an adult and manage your own finances b) the club lists prices for their gear/services c) you're happy to pay those prices d) you're financially responsible and are not mortgaging your house to buy Halcyon gear :)

Scuba diving is an expensive hobby. How expensive exactly is up to you to decide.

With the club I have spent about 2 months practicing kicking
This sounds awesome! I wish I had a local club like this!

Practicing kicking and working towards a rec or tech pass is hard and hearing these words from other fellow divers make me sad

Yes, it is hard! But that's what's great about it. Focus on practicing and don't listen to what other people say.

sometimes questioning what I shall do
You should do whatever you want to do! No matter if it's taking GUE classes, practicing with your awesome local dive club, becoming a DM/OWSI so you can get some side income. All of those are worthy goals to pursue. Don't let other people's opinions discourage your from pursuing them!
 
people said with such time I could have already become a DM or at least Rescue, if I take these courses with another club.
I took GUE-F after around 30-35 dives. Then almost immediatly after I took AOW with a 4digit dives "instructor". I am the bottom of the barel when it comes to GUE... Yet, I had objectively exponentially better control in the water than my instructor during my "peak" buoyancy class. The same applies to my experience for the majority of non-GUE instructors I have met, unfortunately.

In scuba, skills are decoupled from the cert cards, for a good amount of divers. The only organization I know, where this is not the case it's GUE.

I sometimes shared videos of my training and new equipments online and received some feedbacks questioning why I did not buy some "standard scuba equipment", and instead buy something that could be "overcharged".
Assuming you want to continue the GUE route, make a list with these people so that you can ignore them. If they ask curiously... Sure! Pour them some of your kool-aid.
Often, though, you will see that many are just baiting you to unload their insecurities, especially if they are professionals. Hovering, a skill that is learned from a worse than average newbie in 2 days during GUE-F, is a skill that instructors with thousands of dives have not yet achieved apparently. Yet, there is enough ego to not accept getting some training from GUE instructors (or other capable instructors), and simultaneously dismiss or attack people that went though the process. One of these things requires effort you see, the other doesn't. After you get GUE training and you show your GUE card, or you show with any blue H equipment to some LDSs, it's very likely depended of the location to confirm this extremely unfortunate and sad fact even in person.

I paid 375$ for OW, and 750$ for GUE-F (total 1125$). One of my best friends paid 550$ for OW, 300$ for AOW, and 400$ for rescue (total 1250). I am diving twin tanks EAN32, he is diving singles air. I can hover, assuming almost any reasonable position in the water, he flatter kicks continuously and he cannot practically stop and hover. I can practice for fun air-sharing drills at any point during the dive, he is feeling uncomfortable and unsafe to do it (same goes for most rec instructors I have met). If somebody was overcharged, I am pretty confident that it is not other than my friend. (Ofc I convinced him to get GUE-F training just by showing my mediocre -- at best -- skills.)

As almost everybody else already said, I would book a GUE-F class the sooner possible. The skills you will learn there will stick with your for your entire career and they will be OBJECTIVELY better than the corresponding ones required for becoming either a DM or Rescue. Or at least that's my recommendation assuming that you would like to be able to control your position, awareness, etc underwater. Personally, I only started truly enjoying diving only after the GUE-F class. This class truly enhanced my skills above my expectations and removed any stress related to my previous subpar skillset.
 
Cue the old lady from the Titanic movie meme:

“It’s been 33 years since my OW and I’m still not a DM…”

I gradually slipped into DIR after becoming a Techie around 2000. Because it’s just a better way to dive. I don’t maintain/keep up GUE but I did Fundies in 2003 (and dive regularly with GUE divers) because it’s a damn good course and they’re reliable, safe divers and all the skills mentioned in the OP, have come to feel like essential basics. I have no interest in becoming a DM or instructor. That’s a different kind of diving. I dive because I love it and prefer to dive with others who dive for the same reason.
Expensive kit? Yup.
On the other hand my back plate, wing etc with the little blue Hs on are 20 years old now. Still good for another 10. Worst case, I might need a new single tank wing in a couple of years…
 
Sounds like you are finding value in that club, that you are enjoying the approach, and that you have the money to spend… that’s all you really need 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

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