DIR- GUE Finding teammates after failing fundamentals

[OrcasC205]

Yeah, sculling is the proper English name!
Sorry for going severely off topic...

My NAUI AOW Instructor called that using your "special" fins. It was not a compliment.

 

[Angelo Farina]

My NAUI AOW Instructor called that using your "special" fins. It was not a compliment.

Usually novice divers use paddling, not sculling.
Paddling was strongly criticized also in the seventies.
The instructors at the time were devoting a significant effort teaching sculling and suppressing paddling.
And female divers with previous experience with synchro swimming were in advantage, as they were already sculling perfectly.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

This video might be of interest on fins and GUE:

 

[overthinking_diver]

Hand opposition is shown at minutes 8:20, 9:01, 26:40, etc.

Wow, this is fascinating. Not like anything I've seen before.

I'm very, very far from being experienced enough to judge the merits of different propulsion techniques, so I won't even pretend to have an opinion.

I personally plan to stick with GUE and the techniques they teach. But it's always interesting to learn about other completely different ways to dive and see how diving changed through the years. Again, thanks for sharing. I'm super happy my little post about my struggles during fundies inspired this debate so I got to learn about a completely new diving method.

 

[overthinking_diver]

I don't know but I think there is just too much blame being placed on jet fins here.

oh, absolutely. I was just enjoying the fin debate too much to say anything about it I definitely don't blame my jet fins for not passing the class.

 

[johndiver999]

The team is definitely the most important thing. During Fundies though, if your buddy goes to 23 feet (or especially more of a variance) when your target depth is supposed to be 20 feet and you follow in order to stay together, you will likely both be marked down.

One of the most helpful pieces of advice that I got from a Tech 2/Cave 2 mentor when I did Fundies was to never let a teammate screw me up from the task at hand. The Instructor can only evaluate what they saw. They can't assume that you could have/would have maintained the target depth/position, etc., if only the buddy hadn't lost their position.

The job of the teammates is to communicate (passively or actively) throughout the dive, but especially when someone is losing the target position, before it becomes 1.5 feet, 2, 3 feet, etc., and harder to recover.

Another job of the teammate is to be a solid point of reference for other teammates. If someone is "working" on a skill, the other(s) pick up any slack and maintain time/depth/position/keep the line between them, etc. If someone is losing position, you stay in position, get their attention, and signal "come down/up", "come this way", etc. If the other diver has totally lost their position/control, I would then signal to the Instructor that I will follow and then do so safely. By then, the Instructor has seen that you maintained position and attempted to communicate and help your teammate to stay in position.

Before a teammate gets 3 or more feet away, a lot of communication should have taken place, and that gets evaluated. Team skills are evaluated throughout, but in the end, each individual is evaluated for their personal outcome, which can be completely different for each team member.

I know that you know all of that. I do think that anyone doing Fundies needs to know that team cohesiveness and communication go hand in hand. Team cohesiveness involves more than just staying together or following, but actively trying to keep the team together.

I'm not DIR and some of the stuff "you guys" perseverate over, would be ignored by me.

However, the point about being "a reference" (which I assume is during the ascent) really is tremendously useful. It is so much easier (and helpful) to have a buddy who is holding depth perfectly when ascending in open water and you are messing with gear etc.

It is so easy to start drifting upward (or sinking) when trying to untangle something or other, and if the buddy just follows along with you, it is particularly unhelpful because you kinda hope/assume he is doing the opposite. The "sliding buddy", is not only unhelpful, but tends to draw you even further offsides.

Of course, this is in the context of real diving and has nothing to do with being evaluated during training dives, but it is a really good tip about how to be a good buddy.

 

[OrcasC205]

However, the point about being "a reference" (which I assume is during the ascent) really is tremendously useful. It is so much easier (and helpful) to have a buddy who is holding depth perfectly when ascending in open water and you are messing with gear etc.

In GUE teams, being "a reference" is more than just during ascents (though that is a big part of it.) Any time one of the team is potentially distracted dealing with an issue, or even simple things like switching gasses, having that teammate as a reference to help maintain trim and buoyancy is a benefit.

 

[ginti]

I'm not DIR and some of the stuff "you guys" perseverate over, would be ignored by me.

However, the point about being "a reference" (which I assume is during the ascent) really is tremendously useful. It is so much easier (and helpful) to have a buddy who is holding depth perfectly when ascending in open water and you are messing with gear etc.

It is so easy to start drifting upward (or sinking) when trying to untangle something or other, and if the buddy just follows along with you, it is particularly unhelpful because you kinda hope/assume he is doing the opposite. The "sliding buddy", is not only unhelpful, but tends to draw you even further offsides.

Of course, this is in the context of real diving and has nothing to do with being evaluated during training dives, but it is a really good tip about how to be a good buddy.

Agree, although I don't understand your last point... being a good reference (even in situations other than the ascent) is actually part of the evaluation during GUE courses (a big one)

 

[johndiver999]

Agree, although I don't understand your last point... being a good reference (even in situations other than the ascent) is actually part of the evaluation during GUE courses (a big one)

My comment was intended to reinforce that this skill has real world significance/benefit outside of any training program or DIR evaluation session (for example I don't give a crap about trim when ascended and in fact, I am almost always vertical, so I can better watch for sharks).

This idea is a good example of one of the "DIR things" that I find very useful, although I am most definitely NOT DIR. Incidentally, I was never taught this, nor ever read about it, just something that I discovered myself during diving, but DIR is apparently teaching it so it circumvents the need to discover this stuff on your own by trial and error (and swearing).

As you mentioned being a good reference, is useful during a stop and during the ascent, although the distinction seems minor since ascent are supposed to be very slow.

During the times when I dive with a buddy (not so often), and when doing a drift dive ascent, it is nice for the buddy to position themselves where I can see them, and allow me to fully concentrate on winding in a reel with 300 feet of line out, and allow them to sorta set the ascent rate, so I don't have to frequently stop reeling, locate my console, check the depth, drop the console and resume reeling the slack line in.

Conversely, it is so damn frustrating when they know you are going to be facing a particular direction (down wind normally) during the winding-in process, and they sit behind you, so you have to do all that crap AND turn around and see if they are still following you.

It's not that big of deal (since I am normally alone), but it is an example of what I considered to be a well tuned buddy team.

 

[FishWatcher747]

During the times when I dive with a buddy (not so often), and when doing a drift dive ascent, it is nice for the buddy to position themselves where I can see them, and allow me to fully concentrate on winding in a reel with 300 feet of line out, and allow them to sorta set the ascent rate, so I don't have to frequently stop reeling, locate my console, check the depth, drop the console and resume reeling the slack line in.

If your computer is on a console get the wrist adapter for a puck computer and wear it on your wrist. This was a game changer for me in allowing me to always know what my depth was.

Something like this but depends on the size of the computer.