DIR- GUE Finding teammates after failing fundamentals

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Purchasing equipment can be expensive, and a person without experience could waste money on something not useful for their purposes. Also, practicing without an instructor can make a diver learn bad habits, which can be a nightmare to unlearn later on...

Had I not stayed away from GUE for so long, I would have saved myself so much money in equipment purchases and training that didn't do much for me (if anything).

 

[overthinking_diver]

In some caves here, like in Grotta Giusti, it is forbidden to use fins at all!

wow, I did not know that! Super interesting! Can you share some info on this hand opposition technique, I tried googling it but all that comes up is hand signals

If the OP had intention to continue diving with his wetsuit and Nova fins, he had better done the course with this equipment.

No, that wasn't my intention. I'm not attached to the Novas at all. I bought them 9 months ago with the rest of my gear - hydros pro bcd and short hose regulator with the octopus.
I always found the loop of the "long" yellow octopus hose really annoying so when I found GUE I was really happy someone figured out a way to route the hoses without a big loop like this. So I had no qualms about shelving all my gear and buying a bp/wing and the rest of the GUE stuff. I haven't gotten around to listing my old stuff in the classifieds yet but I will do that at some point. I don't expect to use any of it again including the fins.
My next class will be the GUE drysuit class and if that goes well I'll dive drysuit most of the time so the heavy fins should be fine.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I'm sure everyone here knows this but I'll say it just in case someone new to GUE somehow stumbles upon page 9 of this thread.
Precision is incredibly important for fundamentals. Everything in class is done relative to a fixed object in the water like a cookie on a horizontal line. You need to keep your positioning both vertical and horizontal relative to that object and your teammate as you do skills. If/when you lose it you need to reposition yourself (without swimming in a circle) before continuing with the particular drill.
Precise positioning when task loaded is one of the hardest things in class and one of the coolest and most useful skills you learn.

So there's no option to sacrifice even a little precision for more power. I think this is why they insist on the particular fin type. But as others have said, it doesn't have to be the exact model I was using.

I don't know about the older jet fins but the new ones made in Taiwan don't seem all that negative. I tested mine with a luggage scale in fresh water and each were a half pound negative. This is only for size large. I didn't test them but with 5mm booties I bet they are close to neutral. That said, I did have trouble in a pool session when I switched to a shorty with my legs dropping. However, I think it was some other problem and not my fins. I think my crotch strap might have been too loose because of the shorty and not wearing my tech shorts. I don't know but I think there is just too much blame being placed on jet fins here.

 

[Ayisha]

The other thing that matters a lot is team cohesion. Is it more important to be precisely 20ft by yourself or with the team at 23? But that isn’t equipment related.

The team is definitely the most important thing. During Fundies though, if your buddy goes to 23 feet (or especially more of a variance) when your target depth is supposed to be 20 feet and you follow in order to stay together, you will likely both be marked down.

One of the most helpful pieces of advice that I got from a Tech 2/Cave 2 mentor when I did Fundies was to never let a teammate screw me up from the task at hand. The Instructor can only evaluate what they saw. They can't assume that you could have/would have maintained the target depth/position, etc., if only the buddy hadn't lost their position.

The job of the teammates is to communicate (passively or actively) throughout the dive, but especially when someone is losing the target position, before it becomes 1.5 feet, 2, 3 feet, etc., and harder to recover.

Another job of the teammate is to be a solid point of reference for other teammates. If someone is "working" on a skill, the other(s) pick up any slack and maintain time/depth/position/keep the line between them, etc. If someone is losing position, you stay in position, get their attention, and signal "come down/up", "come this way", etc. If the other diver has totally lost their position/control, I would then signal to the Instructor that I will follow and then do so safely. By then, the Instructor has seen that you maintained position and attempted to communicate and help your teammate to stay in position.

Before a teammate gets 3 or more feet away, a lot of communication should have taken place, and that gets evaluated. Team skills are evaluated throughout, but in the end, each individual is evaluated for their personal outcome, which can be completely different for each team member.

I know that you know all of that. I do think that anyone doing Fundies needs to know that team cohesiveness and communication go hand in hand. Team cohesiveness involves more than just staying together or following, but actively trying to keep the team together.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I'm no cave diver, but AFAIK the reason GUE teaches to use only fins for propulsion, positioning and stability is that you need your hands for other things, like running a line, doing a gas switch, assisting a buddy. Moving your hands also makes light movement more erratic, which makes passive light communication more unclear. Which again is why they require fins that provide precise control.

Of course GUE have very good reasons for the techniques they employ, perfectly tailored to the environment where they were operating.
But in other, different environments, other techniques can be more appropriate.
The best is to master as many different techniques as possible...

 

[PR_SMITH]

I'm no cave diver, but AFAIK the reason GUE teaches to use only fins for propulsion, positioning and stability is that you need your hands for other things, like running a line, doing a gas switch, assisting a buddy. Moving your hands also makes light movement more erratic, which makes passive light communication more unclear. Which again is why they require fins that provide precise control.

Another reason to use fins instead of hands is that our leg muscles are much more efficient at turning the air we breath into motion.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Another reason to use fins instead of hands is that our leg muscles are much more efficient at turning the air we breath into motion.

Well, this is questionable. Certainly leg muscles are more powerful. But this means that, when used inefficiently, they can absorb a lot of power.
Using hand opposition, instead, is very efficient and uses minimal force. It is NOT paddling...
You can see it used in this long video which demonstrates all the exercises which were in use here in Italy during the fifties and sixties and part of the seventies for training new divers.
I had to perform all of them for getting my first diving certification in 1975...
The course was 6 months long, and the exercises were the same used by Comsubin military divers.
But be aware that most of this is VERY vintage and obsolete...
Hand opposition is shown at minutes 8:20, 9:01, 26:40, etc.
It must also be noticed that at the time the perfect trim to be maintained when performing these precision positioning exercises was VERTICAL and that the standard equipment used was the ARO, a CC pure-oxygen rebreather.
Of course in the following 50 years a lot of things changed, both in the equipment and in the diving techniques.
I am not advocating that these obsolete methods should still be used nowadays: in the eighties I was one of the few instructors fighting strongly for modifying the didactical approach, removing most of those technically challenging exercises (which resulted in a failure ratio above 70%, only one student every 4 was certified succesfully) and shortening the length of the course.
I am all in favour of modern teaching methods and diving techniques!

But we should not forget where we come from, and that current techniques were developed for fixing some of the problems encountered with older ones. But in some cases these old techniques had some advantages over modern ones...
As I have already said, a diver should know as many techniques as possible, both modern and old.
And be able to use the one more suitable for each task...

 

[steinbil]

Well, this is questionable. Certainly leg muscles are more powerful. But this means that, when used inefficiently, they can absorb a lot of power.
Using hand opposition, instead, is very efficient and uses minimal force. It is NOT paddling...
You can see it used in this long video which demonstrates all the exercises which were in use here in Italy during the fifties and sixties and part of the seventies for training new divers.
I had to perform all of them for getting my first diving certification in 1975...
The course was 6 months long, and the exercises were the same used by Comsubin military divers.
But be aware that most of this is VERY vintage and obsolete...
Hand opposition is shown at minutes 8:20, 9:01, 26:40, etc.
It must also be noticed that at the time the perfect trim to be maintained when performing these precision positioning exercises was VERTICAL and that the standard equipment used was the ARO, a CC pure-oxygen rebreather.
Of course in the following 50 years a lot of things changed, both in the equipment and in the diving techniques.
I am not advocating that these obsolete methods should still be used nowadays: in the eighties I was one of the few instructors fighting strongly for modifying the didactical approach, removing most of those technically challenging exercises (which resulted in a failure ratio above 70%, only one student every 4 was certified succesfully) and shortening the length of the course.
I am all in favour of modern teaching methods and diving techniques!

But we should not forget where we come from, and that current techniques were developed for fixing some of the problems encountered with older ones. But in some cases these old techniques had some advantages over modern ones...
As I have already said, a diver should know as many techniques as possible, both modern and old.
And be able to use the one more suitable for each task...

I've practiced these movements as part of swim training. I think it's called "sculling" or "hand sculling" in that context.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I've practiced these movements as part of swim training. I think it's called "sculling" or "hand sculling" in that context.

Many fishes also employ the same action with their anterior fins for precision movements..

 

[Angelo Farina]

I've practiced these movements as part of swim training. I think it's called "sculling" or "hand sculling" in that context.

Yeah, sculling is the proper English name!
Sorry for going severely off topic...