Failed CESA in OW

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Getting back to the person involved who started this thread ( @Mosizely ), your instructor is not “professional” in his way of dealing with your overweight problem. There are two things to consider here.

First, with a dry suit, you are actually trying to do two courses at once. One is the basic certification in scuba, and one is in the use of a dry suit. Dry suit diving is usually a specialty course, requiring you to already be certified in scuba. Dry suits add an additional buoyancy factor, that many are not prepared for dealing with. So think about getting your certification dives in a wetsuit first, then going to a dry suit.

Now, about the CESA, it is a “controlled, emergency swimming ascent,” as mentioned by CuzzA above. This ascent cannot be “controlled” if the diver is either underweighted or overweighted. As mentioned, the diver needs to be neutrally buoyant at the surface (deep breath, eyes out of the water when still, vertical). If the diver cannot remain still (no finning) and stay on the surface, that diver is not neutrally buoyant. A BCD is a “buoyancy control device,” and is intended to simply use added air to counteract the effects of a wetsuit’s compression. In freshwater, that can be 16-18 pounds of buoyancy lost.

I have years ago, when I was writing about buoyancy compensation issues for NAUI, simply taken off my weight belt at about 30 feet, tied a butterfly knot (a mid-rope loop) in the anchor line, and left my weight belt there. I then swam around completely neutrally buoyant in Clear Lake, Oregon (4000 feet altitude, freshwater) in a full wetsuit. When I was ready to surface, I simply swam over to the boat’s anchor line, retrieved my weight belt, put it on around my waist, and untied the butterfly knot (it’s easy to tie and untie), then swam to the surface. This was before BCDs were even available.

Now, about dry suits; they really do not need a BCD in order to work. For years and years, dry suits were dived without any BCD, as you added air into the suit to counteract the effects of pressure on the suit’s buoyancy (if it had any). Take a look at old Cousteau films in very cold water with the UniSuit. Many dry suits don’t compress like a wetsuit, and so there is no inherent loss buoyancy as the diver descends. BCDs are now routinely added as an additional “safety measure” which also conveniently increases the profits of the local dive shop (LDS). A BCD with a dry suit adds another dimension to the dive, more equipment, and additional low pressure inflators. This has led to fatalities (see a discussion of an Arctic dive off the U.S.S. Healy) when not enough LP inflator hoses were available for the octopus, BCD and dry suit.

Concerning your instructor, he appears more concerned about his own schedule and earnings than your safety. Switch instructors!

SeaRat
I heard at some cold regions, people use drysuit while learning OW, both thick wetsuit and drysuit can cause buoyancy problem, and cold is the root of all.

So not only switch the instructor, but also choose a warm ocean to learning dive is a good idea.

I hate quarry diving. Cold, poor vis and boring , I will never dive quarry unless chinese gov lock border again.
 
I heard at some cold regions, people use drysuit while learning OW, both thick wetsuit and drysuit can cause buoyancy problem.
So not only switch the instructor, but also choose a warm ocean to learning dive is a good idea.
I hate quarry diving. Cold, poor vis and boring , I will never dive quarry unless chinese gov lock border again.
It's normal practice to learn OW in the UK using a drysuit.

Fortunately the UK has some great diving outside of the cold and miserable quarries.
 
It's normal practice to learn OW in the UK using a drysuit.

Fortunately the UK has some great diving outside of the cold and miserable quarries.
Yes, UK have some amazing divesite you can see wrecks even orcas, newbies need warm nest to grow their skill before enjoy that : )

"the cold and miserable quarries." I love this describe, 100% correct.
 
As best I can tell this has nothing to do with cesa. If the diver ascends and can not kick hard, snatch a breath of air, blow in the bc, sink maybe 6 inches and the kick hard again, snatch another breath and inflate orally, then they are drastically overweighted. With two lungfulls in the BC, the third one should be easy and the diver should be floating pretty comfortably by then. Even moderate overweighting should be manageable at the surface with the above.

It sounds like the OP was terribly overweighted or has no watermanship skills. Aren't properly weighted recreational divers supposed to be able to snorkel on the surface without air in the BC and without much trouble at all? I would be curious if this was done??? It would seem to be a reasonable way to distinguish a skills issue versus gross overweighting.

I'm having a hard time believing the OP was not way, way overweighted but who knows, some people really freak out trying to orally inflate a BC.
Orally inflating below surface was no problem...technique i thought to be ok... air was certainly going in... but i put two large breaths in, went for the third, hoping that it would be enough, but by that point i was underwater again... first reaction was to reach for reg.
 
I'm tired of saying "your instructor sucks" and then having people jump on me saying "you weren't there, how do you know?"
But I'll say it anyway, and ignore (per usual) the retorts: OP, your instructor sucks. Find another.
Mob
 
Something is not adding up.
If OP was neutral or close to it at depth, how come he is negative at surface?
Dumped too much air on way up? That's technique issue, not weight issue.

I do agree with others that say that his instructor is dangerous.
The way I read is he was negative at depth as well as at the surface, so both technique and weight; one should not struggle to stay afloat at the surface unless they carry too much weight.
 
OK, First post, so dont jump on me...(Have looked on other posts & cant find...)

I did my first two OW dives at the weekend... was really struggling with maintaining Neutral buoyancy (Drysuit worn) and had extra weight added, both in BCD & Harness...
I wasn't tested for buoyancy at the surface...so once air was released from BCD i went down like a stone, deep breath not enough to keep me at eye level at surface...
So, struggling for the day, we went into day 2 & dive 3...
We started the CESA & i was a bit confused by the instructions at 5 or 6m platform, as they seemed to contradict what was said at the surface... Instructor seemed to offer me the buoy rope, so i took it.. FAILED...
try again...
got to surface fine, but could not inflate BCD orally, as weight kept dragging me under...FAILED
try again...
Same.. kicking like mad.... still sinking, reg back in...FAILED
try again...
Not sure what happened here.. Instructor pulled my reg out which completely threw me, grabbed reg & purged to get back in.. FAILED
try again...
same.. weight stopping me from being able to take a breath at surface...
at this point instructor took of hood & I realised that it was all over...wasnt allowed to do dive 4.
I'm absolutely devastated! Quite frankly, at the moment I never want to put a BCD on again....
Wide open question...by my description.. was I missing something, was i doing something wrong...? It wasn't really explained, just told that I wasn't getting it.... whatever happened to the "we'll do it all in your own time" mantra.. "no rush" etc....

Gutted !!
Assuming things happened as described, the instructor failed the course, not you.
  • Dry-suits add quite a bit of complexity, but are the only option in some locations or time of year.
  • It sounds like you were SEVERELY over-weighted. Being properly weighted is critical to a good dive, and even a safe dive. They may have even been some equipment issue as well, like a leaky BCD.
  • The instructor should have recognized you were overweighted, or at least talked to you and tried to figure out what the problem was.
@Searcaigh Many thanks for kind-of reassuring me that I was thinking along the right lines...I wasn't going to argue with the Instructors, as theyre the professionals, but after a couple of good breaths into the oral inflator, I still had no buoyancy...options were reg in, or inflate bcd via the button...
Really not sure where to go next with this.. feel completely gutted, but want to continue...
I can understand that, I'm not exactly one to argue myself. But these seem these instructors were the "unprofessionals."
In an emergency, though, you need to ditch your weights first which, IIRC, isn't done in CESA during OW training. This does cause me to question the validity of still teaching it, or at least requiring it for certification.
In my OW course, from what I remember, we were taught how CESA works, and asked to do a manual-oral-inflate. Though I don't remember actually doing a CESA "skill," as in having no air, and being asked to surface and orally inflate or anything like that.
That's exactly what I did.. i explained thatfelt that I had too much weight & I was unable to keep myself at eye level, which I why i reached for the reg each time i plummeted again once reaching the surface. we never did any further buoyancy checks which un nerved me a bit
Wow. If you actually told the instructor you thought you had too much weight, an instructor with an IQ above 50 should have recognized that they really needed to check your weighting, and your troubles had nothing to do with you.

I personally don't have dry-suit experience, however typically (I'm simplifying a little) I have completely neutral buoyancy at the surface with an empty BCD and 50% lung-full of air at the beginning of the dive. At the end of the dive, I have neutral buoyancy at the safety stop with a nearly empty BCD. With weighting dialed in like that, I can actually surface from extreme depths, with only light finning and an empty BCD.

Dry-Suits tend to involve adding more weight, however unless you were doing the CESA skill with a flooded dry-suit, the dry-suit should have expanded on the way up, compensating for whatever additional weight you might have had.
 
I agree that watermanship could be the issue here too and maybe the OP makes it sound worse that it was. The instructor yanking reg from the student is still pretty bad though.
Obviously my "Watermanship" could be an issue.. i'm a TRAINEE... reliant on the instruction of a professional.
 

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