Failed CESA in OW
- Thread starter Mosizely
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In that case usually you breath from your buddy.Are you sure, Angelo? What if you have no bail out tank and you're on an italian ARO rebreather from the 1860s and your breathing hose rips off?
Done it sometimes with my girlfriend...
We actually dove some times with just a single ARO for both of us...
If also this fails, then it is time for the fast ascent. A Cesa is an artificial construction, assuming that in a serious emergency which cannot be resolved underwater the diver does not panic and performs a slow ascent.
I witnessed some panic ascents, never seen a Cesa being performed as the solution of a severe problem.
If the diver is calm enough for a Cesa, then he can also find a solution staying underwater.
If he panics, the result is a fast uncontrolled ascent, not a Cesa.
And yes, in one of these cases the diver got slightly bent, and we both got a nice helicopter trip to the nearest deco chamber (we were in Favignana and the chamber was in Ustica).
CuzzA
Wetwork for Hire
I'll concede stringent buddy, zero current 100 ft. vis vacation diver with a DM overseeing your dive, it's probably not necessary to learn how to do it.
Just slap a bunch of weight on the new diver and teach them to find your buddy in an emergency or die.
I'd prefer to be proficient and be able to perform a CESA, for a number of potential emergencies, and execute it successfully.
IIRC, in basic open water the skill is done in just 15-20 ft/5-7 meters. One of the easiest skills to perform... if weighted properly.
Just slap a bunch of weight on the new diver and teach them to find your buddy in an emergency or die.
I'd prefer to be proficient and be able to perform a CESA, for a number of potential emergencies, and execute it successfully.
IIRC, in basic open water the skill is done in just 15-20 ft/5-7 meters. One of the easiest skills to perform... if weighted properly.
CuzzA
Wetwork for Hire
BTW, S in CESA stands for swimming, not surface.
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Staying solo underwater with a broken hose and no pony bottle because your in 10m of water?
Simulate this skill from 15m to 10m maybe better, less pressure change more safety.
Some instructor said for rec dive, 3min@5m is is suggestive rather than mandatory, if the situation is unsafe such as less than 50bar when sharing air, skip it.
Getting back to the person involved who started this thread ( @Mosizely ), your instructor is not “professional” in his way of dealing with your overweight problem. There are two things to consider here.
First, with a dry suit, you are actually trying to do two courses at once. One is the basic certification in scuba, and one is in the use of a dry suit. Dry suit diving is usually a specialty course, requiring you to already be certified in scuba. Dry suits add an additional buoyancy factor, that many are not prepared for dealing with. So think about getting your certification dives in a wetsuit first, then going to a dry suit.
Now, about the CESA, it is a “controlled, emergency swimming ascent,” as mentioned by CuzzA above. This ascent cannot be “controlled” if the diver is either underweighted or overweighted. As mentioned, the diver needs to be neutrally buoyant at the surface (deep breath, eyes out of the water when still, vertical). If the diver cannot remain still (no finning) and stay on the surface, that diver is not neutrally buoyant. A BCD is a “buoyancy control device,” and is intended to simply use added air to counteract the effects of a wetsuit’s compression. In freshwater, that can be 16-18 pounds of buoyancy lost.
I have years ago, when I was writing about buoyancy compensation issues for NAUI, simply taken off my weight belt at about 30 feet, tied a butterfly knot (a mid-rope loop) in the anchor line, and left my weight belt there. I then swam around completely neutrally buoyant in Clear Lake, Oregon (4000 feet altitude, freshwater) in a full wetsuit. When I was ready to surface, I simply swam over to the boat’s anchor line, retrieved my weight belt, put it on around my waist, and untied the butterfly knot (it’s easy to tie and untie), then swam to the surface. This was before BCDs were even available.
Now, about dry suits; they really do not need a BCD in order to work. For years and years, dry suits were dived without any BCD, as you added air into the suit to counteract the effects of pressure on the suit’s buoyancy (if it had any). Take a look at old Cousteau films in very cold water with the UniSuit. Many dry suits don’t compress like a wetsuit, and so there is no inherent loss buoyancy as the diver descends. BCDs are now routinely added as an additional “safety measure” which also conveniently increases the profits of the local dive shop (LDS). A BCD with a dry suit adds another dimension to the dive, more equipment, and additional low pressure inflators. This has led to fatalities (see a discussion of an Arctic dive off the U.S.S. Healy) when not enough LP inflator hoses were available for the octopus, BCD and dry suit.
scubaboard.com
Concerning your instructor, he appears more concerned about his own schedule and earnings than your safety. Switch instructors!
SeaRat
First, with a dry suit, you are actually trying to do two courses at once. One is the basic certification in scuba, and one is in the use of a dry suit. Dry suit diving is usually a specialty course, requiring you to already be certified in scuba. Dry suits add an additional buoyancy factor, that many are not prepared for dealing with. So think about getting your certification dives in a wetsuit first, then going to a dry suit.
Now, about the CESA, it is a “controlled, emergency swimming ascent,” as mentioned by CuzzA above. This ascent cannot be “controlled” if the diver is either underweighted or overweighted. As mentioned, the diver needs to be neutrally buoyant at the surface (deep breath, eyes out of the water when still, vertical). If the diver cannot remain still (no finning) and stay on the surface, that diver is not neutrally buoyant. A BCD is a “buoyancy control device,” and is intended to simply use added air to counteract the effects of a wetsuit’s compression. In freshwater, that can be 16-18 pounds of buoyancy lost.
I have years ago, when I was writing about buoyancy compensation issues for NAUI, simply taken off my weight belt at about 30 feet, tied a butterfly knot (a mid-rope loop) in the anchor line, and left my weight belt there. I then swam around completely neutrally buoyant in Clear Lake, Oregon (4000 feet altitude, freshwater) in a full wetsuit. When I was ready to surface, I simply swam over to the boat’s anchor line, retrieved my weight belt, put it on around my waist, and untied the butterfly knot (it’s easy to tie and untie), then swam to the surface. This was before BCDs were even available.
Now, about dry suits; they really do not need a BCD in order to work. For years and years, dry suits were dived without any BCD, as you added air into the suit to counteract the effects of pressure on the suit’s buoyancy (if it had any). Take a look at old Cousteau films in very cold water with the UniSuit. Many dry suits don’t compress like a wetsuit, and so there is no inherent loss buoyancy as the diver descends. BCDs are now routinely added as an additional “safety measure” which also conveniently increases the profits of the local dive shop (LDS). A BCD with a dry suit adds another dimension to the dive, more equipment, and additional low pressure inflators. This has led to fatalities (see a discussion of an Arctic dive off the U.S.S. Healy) when not enough LP inflator hoses were available for the octopus, BCD and dry suit.
Coast Guard Cutter Healy Deaths
http://navytimes.com/news/2007/01/ndeadlydiveweb070112/ They violated some very fundamental Navy Diving procedures. It sounds like they were just very excited and anxious to get in the water. They mislead their superiors and bypassed some of the more tedious and time consuming safety...
Concerning your instructor, he appears more concerned about his own schedule and earnings than your safety. Switch instructors!
SeaRat
johndiver999
Contributor
As best I can tell this has nothing to do with cesa. If the diver ascends and can not kick hard, snatch a breath of air, blow in the bc, sink maybe 6 inches and the kick hard again, snatch another breath and inflate orally, then they are drastically overweighted. With two lungfulls in the BC, the third one should be easy and the diver should be floating pretty comfortably by then. Even moderate overweighting should be manageable at the surface with the above.
It sounds like the OP was terribly overweighted or has no watermanship skills. Aren't properly weighted recreational divers supposed to be able to snorkel on the surface without air in the BC and without much trouble at all? I would be curious if this was done??? It would seem to be a reasonable way to distinguish a skills issue versus gross overweighting.
I'm having a hard time believing the OP was not way, way overweighted but who knows, some people really freak out trying to orally inflate a BC.
It sounds like the OP was terribly overweighted or has no watermanship skills. Aren't properly weighted recreational divers supposed to be able to snorkel on the surface without air in the BC and without much trouble at all? I would be curious if this was done??? It would seem to be a reasonable way to distinguish a skills issue versus gross overweighting.
I'm having a hard time believing the OP was not way, way overweighted but who knows, some people really freak out trying to orally inflate a BC.
The problem is that a brand new diver-in-training has no ability to determine that for him/herself. @Mesizely mentioned this to the instructor, and the instructor did not respond. So with this diver’s level of experience (none), this is on the instructor.
SeaRat
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