Difference between MB levels and Gradient Factors

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For non-trimix 3 gas dives the Peregrine makes an excellent backup to an air integrated Perdix. That is an all Shearwater solution that really was the only game in town Now you can have an all Scubapro solution with the G2 Tek and Luna 2.0 (AI or non-AI). The Luna is not marketed specifically at technical divers, but by adding ZH-L16C with GF they can now appeal to that group with this computer. I think it allows them to capture a greater market.

The truth is very few recreational divers know anything about the algorithms used. ZH-L16 ADT MB PMG works fine for them because they don't know what it is, and the marketing of "we can adjust your bottom time based on temperature and workload if you buy this heart rate monitor"...well now you are selling a Premium G2 based on features. For many willing to entertain this price range, features do sell. But anybody with a technical diving background and knowledge of algorithms won't bite. The proprietary algorithm sent them to Shearwater because there was no option available in the Scubapro line.

Ignoring the HUD, Scubapro had nothing for technical divers. I exclude the HUD because that can be a love hate item. Then Scubapro released the G2 Tek. It has ZH-L16 GF. Well, now you have a known algorithm, and to be honest, the G2 is not a bad computer. But for a cheaper backup like the Peregrine with the same algorithm...Scubapro had nothing. The Luna 2.0 fits that bill.

Another example is Dad or Mom the Technical diver buying for their OW kids. They know about algorithms. They are thinking Peregrine...now we have the Luna 2.0 with or without AI...Scubapro is meeting the algorithm and price point they want.

I personally don't see ADT going away. Scubapro makes a bg deal about their "Human Factor Diving". It sets them apart from other computers and can be the deciding factor between an Aqualung i770 or a Scubapro G2 for the uninformed.
We all dive beween the "M" line, and NDL dives. NO mesurable differences, no supported research from perspective of actual deco incidents V brand. NO MANUFACTURER has a "safer" product, (admit some unintention faults over the years) But big point:

Those other factors

This big deal!!!!!

Scubapro is (UWATEC) only brand to include those factors in a wearable dive computer in effort to stop the many, many cases of DCS that still happen despite following proper usage of dive devices.

Those other factors are the "next fronteer">>>>>> to dismiss irresponsible.

ADT, Resperation rate, air consumption rate, heart rate, workload, temperature, varying ascent rate, altitude, PDIS, MB settings, etc all brought to you by Scubapro. (UWATEC) These other factors are more important now than anything else. Database and when we can enter other factors: BMI, health, age, sex, risk factors due to fatigue, etc, etc, now possible,.....Ask self who is working on this kind of functionality as compared with pointless debate about deep stops, that don't amount to anything anyways?

So yes agree, thanks.
 
Wow. ChatAI actually works!
As a Pub AI poster/semi human being, I don't have real-time information or access to specific product details beyond my September 2021 knowledge cutoff.

However, Scubapro G2 is generally regarded as a high-quality dive computer with advanced features and customizable settings. It is designed to provide accurate dive profiles and decompression calculations based on established decompression theory. Safety in diving depends on various factors, including proper training, adherence to dive tables or algorithms, and responsible diving practices. It's always recommended to consult with diving professionals or reviews from trusted sources to get the most up-to-date information on dive computer safety and performance.
 
As a Pub AI poster/semi human being, I don't have real-time information or access to specific product details beyond my September 2021 knowledge cutoff.

However, Scubapro G2 is generally regarded as a high-quality dive computer with advanced features and customizable settings. It is designed to provide accurate dive profiles and decompression calculations based on established decompression theory. Safety in diving depends on various factors, including proper training, adherence to dive tables or algorithms, and responsible diving practices. It's always recommended to consult with diving professionals or reviews from trusted sources to get the most up-to-date information on dive computer safety and performance.
More puffery/BS from ScubaPro via ChatAI? What could possible go wrong...
 
More puffery/BS from ScubaPro via ChatAI? What could possible go wrong...
Mine is a true Chat GPT reply.

It is surprisingly similar to some posts … from the col north of Alaska and co
 
More puffery/BS from ScubaPro via ChatAI? What could possible go wrong...


This is best one: Feel free all those that blindly promote GF as best because you can select "level of conservatisim, this is why GF better than G2 and whatever it does." Ok so now we have level of conservatisim and which is best? Feel free to show exact settings and why? Best you going to get from any manufacturer is L, M, H or levels 0 - 9. But somhow this always gets turned on head, in fafor of marketing retoric or outright misinformation. O'h and please also show reserch showing which GF best for many factors including age?


You really should limit your comments on the Subject of the Scubapro G2.

"In technical diving a dive computer is not
the primary instrument to follow during the
dive. Before the dive you must make a plan
and during the dive follow it. If your plan and
the computer show different schedules,
follow the more conservative one."

The above is a primary factor of why so many "adult" divers take advantage of what the G2 has to offer.

But again, when half of the posters commenting here are more involved GF99 and SurGF, ON THE FLY as compared with diving the decompression plan, what would you expect? Calculating and reccomending deep deco diving on the fly is just wrong. This is turned round by the retoric and praise of live GF monitoring. (Feel free to stare and attempt to dcipher what your dive coumputer is telling you on the fly. The mental gymnasitics are huge. I set my G2 to the plan, it instanly alerts me when I have exceeded the parameters I set it for when I made my dive plan, I value this feature. ) So says the sales literature. Perhaps when we have people that have actually used the G2 AND have used other brands, we can all have an adult discussion instead of this ill and uninformed constant bantering. I suspect the vast majority here do not own multiple units, much less understand fully.

The constant attacks regarding the G2 SOS mode is just one example of the intentional ignorance and misdirection that continues to surface here. Do yo know why SOS mode is important in light of repetitive diving? And the fact that most of those GF types fall very, very short on this subject? When you enter SOS mode, neither the computer AND YOU can use the decompression features, which is basicially why many purchase a dive computer in the first place. Why then does other brands, other than Scubapro continue to bash a safety feature when circumstances which create the safety feature are caused by ignoring the units in the first place. And then these other manufaturers try to turn a deficit into a markiting positive. You can always reset the thing, or use it to monitor depth and time, but alas so many try to use propaganda and lie and say the unit shuts off or whatever. Personally if the conditions exsist that cause a copmputer to go into SOS mode, you really shouldnt be diving again, period. And the fact that the unit is telling you something about the dive you just did, well I am glad it locks (SOS mode NOT lockout) out, because you are asking it to guess or remember something you ignored in first place. I use the G2 to track multi day dives, it is the best at that. PDIS takes care of Deep stop issues, G2 best at "efficency" if anyone would bother to learn and actually study manual.

"When the G2 is set to Gauge mode, it will
only monitor depth, time, and temperature,
and will not carry out any decompression
calculations."


"WARNING
Dives in Gauge mode are performed at your
own risk. After a dive in Gauge mode you must
wait at least 48 hours before diving using a
decompression computer."

"When on the surface in Gauge mode,
the G2 will show neither the remaining
desaturation time nor the CNS O2 % value.
It will, however, display a surface interval up
to 24 hours and a 48-hour no-fly time. This
no-fly time is also the time during which you
cannot switch back to computer mode."

Here is the official rational regarding SOS / Gauge mode: If you are stupid enough or perhaps had some kind of emergency and incure a massive deco debt, I am not going to let you back into the water. You are going to have to do things like reset the device or do the right thing and have a big surface interval, cause you have done something so that I can no longer keep track of your deco. Now here is the thing, other manufacturers leave your mistakes and ignorace up to you then get you to belive that this is a benifite.

Real facts from real users of the device are in short supply here. You have previously admitted basicailly you have "never even seen" one of these units.

PDIS in the G2 is not and has never been a promotion for Deep Stops way of thinking. Scubapro MB is not be confused with promoting deep stops either, but so many of you try!!! WHY?
"Along the same lines,
PDIS will account for the accumulated
nitrogen from previous dives; hence,
PDIS is also repetitive-dive dependent." >>>So many other manufaturers can not make the same stement.

Here is other favorite lie: "Workload , no scientific proof, just gimmick." <<<< But there is research, and lots of it that support the other factors are very, very impoortant. You could also state the reverse of this lie as well, there is no research contradicting workload isn't a benifite. Use brain, temperature, respiration, heart rate, temperature very important. Anyone who say otherwise is just attempting to manipulate and lie to those who want their hands held and can't be botherd invest in learning.


I would guess that you base your "Opinions" upon a quick read of the online manual? It takes long time to fully learn something. Perhaps putting in effort beyond what you willing to do? No free lunch with G2, designed for efficency and actual real use, as compared with faux hand holding and features that have sever demands upon thinking. And biggist irony of all, G2 has more features, first, and same features just described differently. Any experinced G2 user can spot the retoric and misdirection, but then why bother coreecting them, they seem to have agenda and would listen anyways.

I would offer that would be a mistake. The G2 does not hold your hand with markiting retoric, which in fact increases risk taking by the fact that to use a G2 as compared with other dive computers, you really do need to know your stuff. There is no hand holding here as clearly evedent in other units.

So why not real owners of G2 speak up here, cause they know better than to deal with people who not fully versed and informed, Keep your marketing materials and incomplete understanding, who can't be bothered. You especially, you do not own a G2, you have never used a G2, you have never seen one, you post misinformation about G2, and yet your mouth keeps moving.

Short version.
 
"In technical diving a dive computer is not
the primary instrument to follow during the
dive. Before the dive you must make a plan
and during the dive follow it. If your plan and
the computer show different schedules,
follow the more conservative one."
Whom are you quoting? When was it written?

I believe you are saying that the proper method of technical diving is to first create a written plan for bottom depth and time, followed by an ascent plan. This allows you to be sure you have all the right breathing gases (etc.) for the dive. That plan is then written on a slate (or something like that.) You then use a computer as a backup to that written plan. Is that what you mean?

When I started tech diving, we just used the written plan, with no computers. The next phase was what is described above, following the written plan with the computer as a backup. The next phase was to follow the computer (still executing the prepared plan), with the written plan as a backup. It is still done that way by people who only have one tech computer (which I haven't seen in years). Everyone I know today preplans the dive as they did long ago, but then follows that plan following a computer with another computer as a backup.

As for following a written plan with a computer as backup, as described above, I am trying to remember the last time I saw that being done. It might have been 2014. I remember it was in Cozumel, diving to about 320 feet off of Palancar Caves. We were supposedly following a written plan, but we were really following the computers, because that is what we obeyed. Why? Because the computer's plan is based on the dive you actually did, not the one you think you did.
 
You really should limit your comments on the Subject of the Scubapro G2.

"In technical diving a dive computer is not
the primary instrument to follow during the
dive. Before the dive you must make a plan
and during the dive follow it. If your plan and
the computer show different schedules,
follow the more conservative one."

The above is a primary factor of why so many "adult" divers take advantage of what the G2 has to offer.

But again, when half of the posters commenting here are more involved GF99 and SurGF, ON THE FLY as compared with diving the decompression plan, what would you expect? Calculating and reccomending deep deco diving on the fly is just wrong. This is turned round by the retoric and praise of live GF monitoring. (Feel free to stare and attempt to dcipher what your dive coumputer is telling you on the fly. The mental gymnasitics are huge. I set my G2 to the plan, it instanly alerts me when I have exceeded the parameters I set it for when I made my dive plan, I value this feature. ) So says the sales literature. Perhaps when we have people that have actually used the G2 AND have used other brands, we can all have an adult discussion instead of this ill and uninformed constant bantering. I suspect the vast majority here do not own multiple units, much less understand fully.

The constant attacks regarding the G2 SOS mode is just one example of the intentional ignorance and misdirection that continues to surface here. Do yo know why SOS mode is important in light of repetitive diving? And the fact that most of those GF types fall very, very short on this subject? When you enter SOS mode, neither the computer AND YOU can use the decompression features, which is basicially why many purchase a dive computer in the first place. Why then does other brands, other than Scubapro continue to bash a safety feature when circumstances which create the safety feature are caused by ignoring the units in the first place. And then these other manufaturers try to turn a deficit into a markiting positive. You can always reset the thing, or use it to monitor depth and time, but alas so many try to use propaganda and lie and say the unit shuts off or whatever. Personally if the conditions exsist that cause a copmputer to go into SOS mode, you really shouldnt be diving again, period. And the fact that the unit is telling you something about the dive you just did, well I am glad it locks (SOS mode NOT lockout) out, because you are asking it to guess or remember something you ignored in first place. I use the G2 to track multi day dives, it is the best at that. PDIS takes care of Deep stop issues, G2 best at "efficency" if anyone would bother to learn and actually study manual.

"When the G2 is set to Gauge mode, it will
only monitor depth, time, and temperature,
and will not carry out any decompression
calculations."


"WARNING
Dives in Gauge mode are performed at your
own risk. After a dive in Gauge mode you must
wait at least 48 hours before diving using a
decompression computer."

"When on the surface in Gauge mode,
the G2 will show neither the remaining
desaturation time nor the CNS O2 % value.
It will, however, display a surface interval up
to 24 hours and a 48-hour no-fly time. This
no-fly time is also the time during which you
cannot switch back to computer mode."

Here is the official rational regarding SOS / Gauge mode: If you are stupid enough or perhaps had some kind of emergency and incure a massive deco debt, I am not going to let you back into the water. You are going to have to do things like reset the device or do the right thing and have a big surface interval, cause you have done something so that I can no longer keep track of your deco. Now here is the thing, other manufacturers leave your mistakes and ignorace up to you then get you to belive that this is a benifite.

Real facts from real users of the device are in short supply here. You have previously admitted basicailly you have "never even seen" one of these units.

PDIS in the G2 is not and has never been a promotion for Deep Stops way of thinking. Scubapro MB is not be confused with promoting deep stops either, but so many of you try!!! WHY?
"Along the same lines,
PDIS will account for the accumulated
nitrogen from previous dives; hence,
PDIS is also repetitive-dive dependent." >>>So many other manufaturers can not make the same stement.

Here is other favorite lie: "Workload , no scientific proof, just gimmick." <<<< But there is research, and lots of it that support the other factors are very, very impoortant. You could also state the reverse of this lie as well, there is no research contradicting workload isn't a benifite. Use brain, temperature, respiration, heart rate, temperature very important. Anyone who say otherwise is just attempting to manipulate and lie to those who want their hands held and can't be botherd invest in learning.


I would guess that you base your "Opinions" upon a quick read of the online manual? It takes long time to fully learn something. Perhaps putting in effort beyond what you willing to do? No free lunch with G2, designed for efficency and actual real use, as compared with faux hand holding and features that have sever demands upon thinking. And biggist irony of all, G2 has more features, first, and same features just described differently. Any experinced G2 user can spot the retoric and misdirection, but then why bother coreecting them, they seem to have agenda and would listen anyways.

I would offer that would be a mistake. The G2 does not hold your hand with markiting retoric, which in fact increases risk taking by the fact that to use a G2 as compared with other dive computers, you really do need to know your stuff. There is no hand holding here as clearly evedent in other units.

So why not real owners of G2 speak up here, cause they know better than to deal with people who not fully versed and informed, Keep your marketing materials and incomplete understanding, who can't be bothered. You especially, you do not own a G2, you have never used a G2, you have never seen one, you post misinformation about G2, and yet your mouth keeps moving.

Short version.
You are absolutely correct: I do not own a G2, and after reading your naive attempts to explain it and defend it, I never will. It uses proprietary, secret methodology to keep me safe? Seriously? If their various special schemes are so great, let them publish them and defend them in peer review. The reason computers like the Shearwater are so popular is because what the computer does is completely explained, completely understood, and completely transparent....NONE of which are true of the G2.
 
Here is a story about lockout features.

As I said above, when I started tech diving, we just used written plans, with no computers. One one dive in Florida with a maximum depth of 270 feet, my buddy and I were following a plan (with contingencies) derived from V-Planner. My buddy had just bought a dive shop (Fill Express), and Suunto was trying to get him to carry their products. They gave him their hot, new tech computer, the HelO2, to try out. He brought it on the dive to see how it would work. Its RGBM algorithm was close to our VPM to begin with, and he tweaked it to get it as close as possible.

Well, we followed out written plan about as well as we possibly could, but it did not match what the HelO2 wanted us to do. During one of our deco stops, my buddy informed me that the HelO2 had gotten pissed off enough to go into gauge mode. "Well, that's just plain worthless," I decided.

I would never consider using a computer that goes into gauge mode in the middle of a dive.
 

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