Curious about accident statistics

[icyman]

Not sure about this but you can go to the DAN website and pull up stats on diving accidents and fatalities, perhaps they could best direct you.

I appreciate the help, as I am genuinely concerned, I have contacted them and I am looking to work on some statistics for accidents. Thanks for the help though.

 

[icyman]

As opposed to looking for statistics regarding the training agencies, I would be more interested in a breakdown based on diver experience (i.e. number of dives). At some point in one's diving career, one's diving experience will count more than which agency initially issued the c-card.

Perhaps a breakdown like:

Accidents during certification (dives 1-4)
Dives 5-20
Dives 21-100
Dives 100-500
Dives 500+

Time to do a search, since typing this has sparked some more interest.

You know I was thinking along the same lines. I had a person in the dive shop today and I thought OMG, they are certified? I would be willing to be the fatalities are statistically higher for people in the 5 to 20 stage and when they are diving by them selves. Reminds me why the scuba skills update is a GREAT thing.

 

[sharkbaitDAN]

It is important to note that while DAN has many of the numbers on injuries and fatalities, including, experience, they are missing a very important pece: the total number of dives each year and total number of divers. Without these two things, any statistical analysis is not going to be worth very much. Both numbers are probably going up each year, but by how much? Also, it should be kept in mind, that instructors are at a much higher risk of injury than other recreational (not tech) divers. PDE has recently passed 100,000 dives, so there should be much more information in the years to come.

 

[padiscubapro]

Your reading something in that I did not say. I was merely asking a question for us to discuss, I couldn't care less about the pety bashing that occurs here. When speaking about SSI, the only name I brought up by the way, I was stating what I had been told. No where else did I bring up any names of PADI, NAUI, or any other certification agency. Try adding some substance to the discussion, instead of looking for a fight. That wasn't my intention in this post.

Now back to the subject, for all I know PADI may have a great record too, I was merely asking if anyone knows statistics.

I wouldn't count on statistics being accurate with regards to major accidents becuase its only the info that was reported to them. I think a more meaningful statistic that probably can be verified is how many insurance claims they have had..

Most agencies can't go a year without a claim.. One agency managed 4 consecutive years (can't remember off hand) and this is the second longest streak... Training accidents are the easiest suit to bring..

ANDI hasn't EVER had an insurance claim (established 1988), and that includes unlimited depth, unlimited deco rebreather dives..
of course this may change as the number of open water certifications climb...

 

[Diver0001]

Not true, at least not for US and Canadian residents. But don't believe me, sign up with DAN to read the reports yourself. I'd be happy to give you a link to DAN if you like.

The records collected by DAN, that do exist from 1970 through 2002, clearly show the number of fatalities a year is on a downward trend. From a high of 147 around 1976 to a low of 67 around 1991. The average is currently hovering around 90 per year.

What this means is highly debatable but it does shown a downward trend in fatalities for this sampling. I'm not aware of any other report or study that shows anything different. So everything else is just conjecture.

It's impossible to take raw numbers out of context and say anything about trends and/or make any claims about incidents without knowing how many divers there are, how many dives are being made and under what conditions.

It's clear that the number of reported fatailities has dropped over the years but does that have anything at *all* to do with training?

Historical data also show drops in the number of deaths that correspond to major changes in equipment configuration, such as the advent of the spg, the single hose regulator, the octopus and so forth. In the case you quoted, for example, the major change from 1975 to today may have a lot to do with the eliminiation of J valves for air reserve and the widespread acceptance of the octopus.....

The big point that icyman seems to be getting at is to make the link between training quality and incident statistics. If you ask me the data just isn't there to make any kind of reliable analysis. And I think that it will continue to be that way because I don't think training agencies are really waiting for these kinds of studies.

R..

 

[Keysdrifter454]

A very good post and I agree with what you are saying. My whole purpose in the thread that we are seeing more and more fatalities each year, and I wonder what is changing other than the fact more divers are getting in the water.

Gotta cite for that 'increased deaths' statistic?

To my knowledge, diver deaths has been virtually static since the 1970s, when they were first kept track of.

About 90 a year, average.

Allowing for the annual increase in certified divers, the already infintismal number of diver deaths has been steadily decreasing for 30 years.

The SSI claim is one you should substansiate, it's a virtual statistical impossibility.

At least -1- SSI diver has to have had a heart attack in the last 5 years.

We share a quarry with an SSI dive shop from another city, a well known Tennessee shop, and their instructors would make PADI proud. I've used their instructors a number of times to point out things to our students that never should happen underwater, mostly gear rigging and technique.

And I'm sure it has nothing to do with SSI.

At my LDS, you can get OW certs from at least 3 agencies, but the training is all the same.

There's no such thing as a substandard scuba course.

Diving just isn't that difficult or dangerous.

Last year's DAN statistics showed that about 35% of the very few divers that died were certified for less than a year, while around the same 35% had been certified for ten years or more.

Anyone correct me (with numbers) if I'm wrong.

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

The SSI claim is one you should substansiate, it's a virtual statistical impossibility.

And even if it were true it would be a fluke. Their training is very similar to all of the usual suspects...... SSI has a lot of crossover divers. Maybe they distance themselves from accidents by pointing at the other cert someone has.

R..

 

[TCDiver1]

To my knowledge, diver deaths has been virtually static since the 1970s, when they were first kept track of.

About 90 a year, average.



Anyone correct me (with numbers) if I'm wrong.

Okay, see post #19 of this thread. These numbers are directly from the DAN report. Based on the sample taken, the numbers are trending down from significantly higher numbers. They are however averaging 90 per year currently as noted earlier.

And i agree with what your saying Diver0001, especially the equipment thing. Like i said in my post, its highly debatable what numbers like these mean. However, the numbers as collected, do shown a downward trend. The statement was made was that deaths were on the increase and quite simply that can't be proved to be true.

The best information being collected today (DAN), shows a downward trend not a upward trend. I for one would love to see real stats of number of dives vs injury and death for the past 40 or so years. No doubt, it would open a lot of eyes to the actual state of training today.

 

[Mako Mark]

yeah, I hear that fatalities caused by falling coconuts is increasing at an alarming rate...

this thread should be pulled someone should wake the bear.... please...

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Okay, see post #19 of this thread. These numbers are directly from the DAN report. Based on the sample taken, the numbers are trending down from significantly higher numbers. They are however averaging 90 per year currently as noted earlier.

Like I said, a per capita decrease, and probably pretty significant.

The 147 was an abberation, and if you group by the decade, it stays pretty constant.

As a fraction of a fraction of the ever increasing diving public.

As far as DCIs, well, if chamber rides were 2-3000 bucks a whack, instead of unlimited rides for $99 a year, methinks that statistic would be a little lower also.

IIRC, it shows no marked increase, about 4500 per year.

The funniest point of all this data is how it blatently indicates that OW training today is as sufficiently thorough, in initiating new divers, as it was in the last three decades, regardless of how many Chicken Littles run around waiting for the sky to fall (back in my day...).

When measuring that statement with actual cogitation, don't forget the notable increase in technical diving, and quicky resort courses, and injuries/deaths are -still- falling...