Criminally negligent homicide?/Scuba Instructor Faces Charges (merged threads)

[Thalassamania]

I can see the point that being compelled to surface and then return adds a time/stress factor to the exercise that can simulate a real-dive situation (say, such as having to swim back around the obstacle to pull the gear backwards to free it).

It is not intended to be a "real world" exercise, but rather a training experience.

One other dumb newbie question that is more just curiosity rather than essential to the discussion at hand; since the deeper we go, the denser the air in our lungs. So, if I were running into a situation such as this at, say, 10m where the air is twice as dense, then I have the surface equivalent of two breaths in my lungs. Since the oxygen level in the air is going to remain consistent at 20.9%, despite the pressure, I would also then have the equivalent oxygen of two lungfuls of air, correct? So, as I swim to the surface, releasing air so that the volume in my lungs does not exceed the capacity of my body, even though I'm releasing air all the way up, I can theoretically still reach the surface with a reasonable amount of air - and oxygen - in my lungs, correct? To prevent the embolism, I need to allow the excess air to escape, but not necessarily expel all the air in the lungs (which would make surfacing more difficult anyway, as the air in the lungs improves positive buoyancy).

All you need do is keep the airway open and permit the pressure to remain equalized.

One other thing just occurred to me that could have a bearing on the subject of doing the "Doff and Don" exercise. The PADI materials stress the rule of NEVER holding your breath while diving. Perhaps in their thinking, the idea of stressing this, and then telling a student to hold their breath while diving to the bottom of the pool in order to retrieve their gear, would undermine that rule.

The general admonition is to, "never hold your breath while breathing compressed air."

Personally, I'm open to being taught anything that makes me a safer, more competent diver.

The real reason that PADI eliminated the doff and don exercise is that it took too much time and they could not squash the entire program down into 20 hours.

 

[String]

I dont see how in an emergency ascent drill the instructor could possibly be able to stop someone from ascending without releasing air, ok, even if that instructor is face to face with that diver, and they are going up, and she sees that he isnt releasing air, how is she suppose to make him do that?

A sharp punch or elbow to the right part of the chest or stomach can force air out if absolutely essential.

 

[Web Monkey]

A sharp punch or elbow to the right part of the chest or stomach can force air out if absolutely essential.

Wow! You're tough!

I always preferred the shoulder dump.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

A sharp punch or elbow to the right part of the chest or stomach can force air out if absolutely essential.

In over 40 years of teaching diving it has never been necessary to consider it. The most I've ever had to do was brush the student's lips with my glove to remind them to blow bubbles.

 

[String]

Wow! You're tough!

I always preferred the shoulder dump.

Terry

Needed to do it once when the student in question was in full panic and swimming like hell to the surface whilst holding breath from about 6m.
There are obviously less drastic ways of stopping an ascent in other situations

 

[bill-da-ho]

Or perhaps universities will go back to teaching higher quality programs run by honest-to-goodness university faculty and taught to a standard above that of an LDS, wouldn't that be a refreshing change? A university course should be a cut above what is available in the commercial world, in all fields and subjects, no?

Paleez,, this is assuming that college's are the ultimate in learning environments! All but the good ones are nothing more than student storage facilities. I"d much rather learn from a layman who has experience than a professor that has theory, thank you very much.

 

[scubajcf]

I am a tap on the left cheek guy myself.

I also introduce this skill, in the pool, during my skin diving session. I have them take a deep breath, drop down to the deep end of the pool, ascend at 1 foot every two seconds (nice and slow) exhaling all the way up. I have found, by practicing this a couple of times on snorkel takes a lot of the intimidation out of the skill and builds confidence for when they try it on Scuba. Further, if they ascend too fast, no harm if not on compressed air ....

On Scuba and Snorkel, I always have complete hand on BCD control of the student.

Further, if you are teaching a PADI Course, this is a skill that should be mastered in the shallow end (doing a horizontal CESA) before heading off to the deep end. If you are not teaching a PADI course, you probably have the flexibility to add the horizontal CESA. Again, more practice and confidence building in a safe environment.

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While this is off-topic, I also do this with Mask Clearing as well. I have people clear their mask two or three times on one breath (I make it into a game/contest). When it comes time to doing a mask removal and replacement, they have lots of confidence. Usually, no problems.



jcf


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[Thalassamania]

Paleez,, this is assuming that college's are the ultimate in learning environments! All but the good ones are nothing more than student storage facilities. I"d much rather learn from a layman who has experience than a professor that has theory, thank you very much.

Please, you can keep your anti-intellectualism. Face it, all that you've learned in 20 hours and less than a couple of dozen dives doesn't really equip you beyond the concept that opinions are like a--holes, everyone's got one.

I've not had a whole lot of experience with the institutions that you describe, my professors have all had both the theory and the real world experience, and I try to follow their examples.

 

[bfw]

In over 40 years of teaching diving it has never been necessary to consider it. The most I've ever had to do was brush the student's lips with my glove to remind them to blow bubbles.

Yes, but it's clear you're a little more picky about your students than the currently dominant industry standard of a pulse, one reactive pupil, and an approved credit card.

 

[bfw]

Or perhaps universities will go back to teaching higher quality programs run by honest-to-goodness university faculty and taught to a standard above that of an LDS, wouldn't that be a refreshing change?

It might be refreshing in some respects, but it's not a likely outcome without tort reform. The biggest univesities in the country can't match any of the top ten agencies for successful outcome statistics to gain legal recognition that their curricula are safe. It's a numbers game the universities can't win. Every year, NAUI or YMCA, let alone PADI, each certify more people than the entire enrollment of a school like OSU, UT, or any of the other monster universities, and they STILL get sued like crazy. How many students can a university certify in a year? 100? 300? You need a mean time between fatalities of 50,000 or more before you're going to be able to defend your curriculum in court. And no, I don't care how many distinguished people with a pile of letters after their names you parade across the witness stand - to the average person who's too dumb to find a way to get out of jury duty, it's going to be blah,blah,blah when will this blowhard shut up so we can have lunch? You might as well explain concepts like task loading and overlearning to my Labrador Retrievers as to the typical American jury. Your enthusiasm for such a change seems to depend on a faulty premise - that our legal system is anything close to a rational process anymore.

A university course should be a cut above what is available in the commercial world, in all fields and subjects, no?

**SHOULD** an adverb implying description of ideals contrary to reality.

Is it reality in today's world? NO. Our universities, outside of a few technological and hard science fields, are becoming a self-esteem and victim class agenda affirming joke. Somehow, America has adopted this idea that everyone should go to college, and the schools, seeing dollar signs in all those Pell grants and student loans, have obligingly dumbed down classes and created bogus new majors and departments to suit everyone's narcissistic emoting agendas. Thus, every year we get a new crop of marginally literate communications and psychology majors who can't pour sand out of a boot with instructions written on the heel (but they sure know how to flog PC grievances!)

Look around - employers are more and more looking for a list of commercial certifications from Microsoft, Oracle, or various industry umbrella standards organizations. They've seen far too many people for whom a university was a place to hang out for 4 years, from universities that all too happily accommodated them as long as Uncle Sam kept the financial aid flowing.