Criminally negligent homicide?/Scuba Instructor Faces Charges (merged threads)

[Joe-Diver]

It's a standard part of the PADI curriculum. It is done in Confined and Open water for every OW student.

No, it is not. We did doff/don 25+ years ago, but not anymore. No level of recreational PADI instruction uses it now.

 

[scubajcf]

It's a standard part of the PADI curriculum. It is done in Confined and Open water for every OW student. And it should be. It's an important skill to learn - as evidenced by the student who died.

I'm not positive - but I would guess other agencies also require this.

A "reasonably prudent" SCUBA instructor, following the guidelines set forth by their agency, would allow and would be forced to conduct this drill to certify a student.

And also remember that the term "Reasonable and Prudent" depends on which instructors or what people you seat on the Grand Jury. I'd wager most have no idea about diving, or, in appearances, like yourself, are unfamiliar with the curriculum, which would lead them to say exactly what you said which is patently false.

Thus - the failure of the American Judicial System, in a small featurette window. Grand Jury sucks. Most of the time the people are stupid. I've been there so much now it's a science. And there is always one person who thinks they should be a judge that will ask you 9,654 questions that have no bearing on the case whatsoever.

I don't think this will matter any: I believe she was teaching an SSI College Course, so PADI standards don't mean anything.

But to clarify, PADI does not have an OW skill that requires the student to leave their gear at the bottom and return to the top. There is an equipment removal and replacement. This is done at the bottom and the regulator never leaves their mouth.

As for the PADI CESA, following are the standards. This skill is probably outlined in detail more than any other in the OW Instructor Manual:

Controlled emergency swimming ascent (CESA) (swimming horizontally, then diagonally for a distance of at least 9 metres/30 feet) — In shallow water, demonstrate the proper technique for executing a controlled emergency swimming ascent. Stress retaining the second stage, extending the head, hand on BCD exhaust valve for control and exhaling continuously, for example, by making a sound. Student divers practice in the shallow end by swimming horizontally. Next continue practice in the deep end with students making a diagonal ascent to the shallow end. For realism, it’s recommended that you have student divers orally inflate their BCDs when they reach the surface to simulate out of air. Reinforce that divers may also establish buoyancy at the surface by
dropping their weights.

** I added the underline to stress retaining the second stage. In training instructors, I have seen this left out countless times.

 

[Missdirected]

For the fast-track PADI instructors, maybe.

But if you slow down and teach your instructors correctly, then something like this should never happen.

Even for a PADI instructor, I cannot imagine any normal instructor letting an episode like this happen.

I know it is fairly common (once a year somewhere in the world) for the cold ocean. But in a pool???

Respectfully, personally, I don't know that I'd randomly go picking on PADI when your instructor has you clipping off your primary to your bungee/necklace.:no

Let's stick to the subject at hand please

 

[smw]

I'm not a lawyer, nor am I a psychic, but I am a lecturer at a university...

If the family can get a judgement against the "instructor" than they can go after the deep pockets, i.e. the university.

I figure the outcome of this is that when all is said and done, not only will universities not offer dive classes, but it will become increasingly difficult for LDS to even use any public pool for instruction.

I feel terrible for the family and for the young adult who died. What a mess.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm not a lawyer, nor am I a psychic, but I am a lecturer at a university...

If the family can get a judgement against the "instructor" than they can go after the deep pockets, i.e. the university.

I figure the outcome of this is that when all is said and done, not only will universities not offer dive classes, but it will become increasingly difficult for LDS to even use any public pool for instruction.

Or perhaps universities will go back to teaching higher quality programs run by honest-to-goodness university faculty and taught to a standard above that of an LDS, wouldn't that be a refreshing change? A university course should be a cut above what is available in the commercial world, in all fields and subjects, no?

 

[nereas]

Respectfully, personally, I don't know that I'd randomly go picking on PADI when your instructor has you clipping off your primary to your bungee/necklace.:no

Let's stick to the subject at hand please

It was not random. Ellis has a PADI facility. So if he is trying to speak for instructors who must now suddenly take notice of this accident and thus raise their level of due care, then I believe he should speak for PADI, alone.

 

[cave_diver]

How deep was the pool?

 

[perdidochas]

Or perhaps universities will go back to teaching higher quality programs run by honest-to-goodness university faculty and taught to a standard above that of an LDS, wouldn't that be a refreshing change? A university course should be a cut above what is available in the commercial world, in all fields and subjects, no?

In the past, (1980s), I was associated with the University of Alabama dive classes (as an Assistant instructor). At that time, we had three main instructors. The lead instructor had a master's in education. A second instructor was a Ph.D. candidate in PE. The third instructor just had a business degree. They were a cut above the commercial world (although they did allow non-university dive students to participate). However, a few years after I left, my understanding is that they had to let open the contract to other shops (due to a threatened lawsuit). I think the instructor in question worked for one of the other shops.

 

[scubajcf]

Following is a great link and a must read for all dive professionals.

I think this law firm does a great job summarizing the potential legal issues associated with being a dive professional.

Google the cases for complete details on each of the references.

Diving into Scuba Litigation - Maryland Physician / Attorneys, Merck, Heart Attacks, Strokes - Lawyers


jcf


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[Thalassamania]

In the past, (1980s), I was associated with the University of Alabama dive classes (as an Assistant instructor). At that time, we had three main instructors. The lead instructor had a master's in education. A second instructor was a Ph.D. candidate in PE. The third instructor just had a business degree. They were a cut above the commercial world (although they did allow non-university dive students to participate). However, a few years after I left, my understanding is that they had to let open the contract to other shops (due to a threatened lawsuit). I think the instructor in question worked for one of the other shops.

IMHO, no college or university should ever surrender responsibility for a course offering to an outside entity that does not play by the same rules. The agencies love the contractor game, but it is in their best interest and the LDS best interest ... not the university or the students.

Following is a great link and a must read for all dive professionals.

I think this law firm does a great job summarizing the potential legal issues associated with being a dive professional.

Google the cases for complete details on each of the references.

Diving into Scuba Litigation - Maryland Physician / Attorneys, Merck, Heart Attacks, Strokes - Lawyers


jcf


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Great link, thanks.