BP/Wings: Why aren't they offered to first time purchasers??

[VTWarrenG]

Am I the only one who doesn't like Halcyon's integrated STA in their single (Pioneer) wing?

I got my DiveRite Trek wing almost specifically because I wanted a real STA, independent of the wing. Something about the connection mechanics of having the wing itself (which is nothing but nylon) support the tank... just bothered me. I haven't seen one in person, though.

I also can't understand how their integrated STA can actually hold the tank "inches closer" to the diver, as compared to a normal STA. Seems like it might save at most 1cm...

And my Trek wing is easy to upgrade to light-weight doubles. Except that I'm probably getting double 95's, which are not really light-weight, so my Trek wing is probably actually useless... but that's a different story.

- Warren

 

[Scubaroo]

VTWarrenG,

I have a new Halcyon SS backplate and Pioneer 36lb wing with the integrated STA - I think it is a new feature of the backplate, but the cam straps actually go through the BACKPLATE as well as the wing. I haven't seen a non-Halcyon backplate yet with these 4 vertical slots in the ridge of the backplate. I have a heavy 95 LP steel tank on my setup, and wearing it out of the water, the tank seems very stable. All of the tank weight is held by the backplate, the wing is merely sandwiched in between. I'm diving it for the first time tomorrow (pending tank passing hydro!), so I'll let you know how it goes. The only reason I'll look at getting a separate STA is if I need extra weight.

Ben

 

[VTWarrenG]

bengiddins,

Oooooooooohhhhhhh. I get it. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I suppose you can also remove the cam bands and add a real STA should the mood arise.

My DiveRite Trek wing has slots in it that might make such an STA-less configuration work for it, too. Except that I'm pretty sure my DiveRite backplate doesn't have matching slots. (Maybe it's because Halcyon has a patent.) For shame. I guess if I got ambitious I could buy a Halcyon plate and a set of cam bands and make my own STA-less rig. But if I start buying Halcyon gear, I'll have a set of LP 95 doubles, three stage bottles, and five new regs in no time, too. Must.... resist.... credit card spree....

- Warren

 

[Windknot]

Guess WHAT I JUST GOT VIA UPS??????

Wing, Halcyon harness (Should have just bought the FredT harness)

And yes, you just thread the straps through the back of the BP.

Bengiddings.....Is it just me, or does that #36 wing look a little too small to lift an adult plus a steel tank plus whatever weight you are using to get down?????

I know it will be OK, but.....It's just so SMALL

 

[Scubaroo]

Yeah, it does look small. I suppose it's because we're used to seeing bloated over-padded jacket style BCs.

 

[VTWarrenG]

bengiddins is right -- 36 lbs of lift is HUGE! There are really only two factors to be considered in weighting a rig:

1) Air -- an 80cf cylinder is 6 lbs lighter empty than full.
2) Wetsuit -- most wetsuits will lose about half their buoyancy when compressed at depth.

Do a little math, including your tank weights (AL vs. steel), your exposure suit (the weight required to sink your suit at the surface, and at depth), your backplate weight, and the weight of any additional gear (like lights, etc), and you can come up with a good guess of your weighting needs. Then fine tune your buoyancy with a couple of easy dives, and you're all done. Keep in mind that your body doesn't have much to do with the equation -- if you're not fat, you're pretty much neutrally buoyant. Also keep in mind two bounds you'll have to meet:

1) You can swim against all your gear, from the bottom, with a failed BC. You can include ditchable weight in this plan. If you can't do this, you're overweighted.
2) You can hover at 15 ft with empty tanks to do a deco/safety stop. If you can't do this, you're underweighted.

That's about it. Welcome to the wide wonderful world of gear that WORKS!

- Warren


- Warren

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Windknot
Wing, Halcyon harness (Should have just bought the FredT harness)


I know it will be OK, but.....It's just so SMALL

Congratulations but if you keep kicking yourself in every post for not buying a FredT I 'm gonna quite reading them!



I have a 45# pioneer but just bought a 27# to see if I can get away with it.... as long as it floats the rig I can take care of myself... If you find that the 36# is just to small - let me know....we'll find a home for it

 

[tombiowami]

27 lb. is fine for a steel tank and wetsuit. I dive it all the time. Do not really need any more weight with the 6 lb ss bp and the steel tank. I can swim it up from depth so no issue there.

Part of the Halcyon/DIR thought is to not be taking 50 lbs. of lift down on your bladder if you only need 27. Hey, they even have a 17 for the strict alum80 and dive skin orientation.

Look at a frontal picture of someone with this rig, you see a couple hoses coming neatly around and that is it. Very trim.

Don't kick yourself for getting the Halcyon stuff, I usually get the brand name first and then go off into DIY land once I really understand how it works.

Tommy

 

[Windknot]

I wont mention Fr#d* again till I write up a comprehensive report on everything that I have found, all the pitfalls that I have discovered and all the joy I have in my BRAND SPANKIN' NEW, FULLY ASSEMBLED, Halcyon Wing!!!......Minus the belt buckle.

They forgot to send the belt buckle!!!! I will get one at LDS tomorrow.

Assembly was simple with all of the suggested links. I took the CAD Drawing that Sean Stevenson produced and made a negative of it (So I didn't have to print off a whole page of black from the original CAD drawing) between that and several other pictures I got it together in short order....not so bad after you do it once....then twice...then three times because you forget to add a D-Ring or innertube here or there. Heheheh.


I guess I'll start a new post on fit and function of BP/Wings setup for my specific questions I have.

Thanks everyone....

 

[FredT]

Originally posted by bengiddins
VTWarrenG,

I haven't seen a non-Halcyon backplate yet with these 4 vertical slots in the ridge of the backplate. I have a heavy 95 LP steel tank on my setup, and wearing it out of the water, the tank seems very stable. All of the tank weight is held by the backplate, the wing is merely sandwiched in between. I'm diving it for the first time tomorrow (pending tank passing hydro!), so I'll let you know how it goes. The only reason I'll look at getting a separate STA is if I need extra weight.

Ben

My plates take both the pioneer, and the rec wing "through the plate" rigging, Plus you can use my STA _or_ the Halcyon built in STA. Mine tends to be more solid and easier to work on a rolling deck if changing tanks at sea, but both will tie the tank to the plate.

I don't carry halcyon wings, but do suggest them at the current time. I'm looking at a wing by the British company Northern Diver as an alternate right now. They should arrive here in a few days. Their specifications look good, now to see if the execution of those specs is up to par. If they survive a couple hunting trips to the deep rigs off here (There IS no tougher test than the "pinball off the rig leg behind a 5' long AJ or cobia" torture run!) they will be a good choice at about half the Halcyon price. Time will tell though. The fall back is to have some custom wings assembled of "bulletproof" material by one of the commercial lift bag companies. I'd rather go with an available design than a custom one, so my custom wing is on a "design hold" until I see how the ND wing looks and performs.

FT