BP/Wings: Why aren't they offered to first time purchasers??

[Lost Yooper]

Chris,

I'm setting my wife up for the exact same diving conditions you are talking about -- warm water, 3mm suit, single 80's, boat diving, etc. Maybe (a big maybe) she will get wet up here. This is what I'm getting her:

Small Fred T SS plate -- she's shorter too.
Halycon AL STA (only because I have one already, I think Fred has AL STA's).
Halcyon 36lb wing (27lb would work, but I want to use the 36lb wing up here for my steel single). I might even get her the 27lb wing -- not sure yet.
I'll get her a pocket that goes on the harness too.
EE Scout light
She'll use an Apeks ATX50/DS4 with a TX40 octo, OMS pressure gauge, and Suunto Vyper computer.

I'm not a wetsuit diver and haven't done the buoyancy tests with a wetsuit. How much ditchable weight? You want to be able to swim up a full 80 with no air in your BC. You want just enough ditchable weight so you can do this (with a 3mil suit, you may be able to swim up without ditching -- don't know). I don't know the equation.

When you order a reg, they come with a standard hose. If you want a long hose, you have to buy that separate (unless you have a good relationship with the shop). A 5' hose cost about $15 or so (mine did anyway).

Mike

 

[FredT]

Originally posted by chris_b


Suits: I have no problem spending ~2 hours snorkeling in 72~74 degree water in only a swimsuit, while my wife gets chilly after maybe 30 minutes in a 3mm shorty in the same water. I'm guessing I'll be fine in a 3mm suit and she will probably want a 5/3 or 5mm suit or maybe a 3mm jane/jacket.

Given that, I wanted to ask:
(1) What sort of backplate would be appropriate for each of us (SS, light SS, Aluminum)?
(1a) My wife is 5'0" tall, I assume she'd want e.g. a "short" plate from FredT?
(1b) What is considered a minimum safe amount of ditchable weight? I think this would have some bearing on backplate choice.

(2) With the answer to (1), what lift wings would be appropriate for our type of diving? (I'm guessing 18 or 27lb lift?)

(3) This is a "long-hose" question: when buying a regulator, can you specify your desired hose lengths? Or do you need to purchase separate hoses if you want, e.g., a 5' hose? Is switching out hoses a DIY proposition with cheap/simple tools or do you need a shop to reconfigure these for you?

I realize this last isn't really a "BC Forum" question, but this seems to be a pretty relaxed board and I hope it's ok.

Thanks so much for all of your input and expertise!

Chris

Answers, as best as I can tell without meeting you.

1. What is apropriate depends on your reserve buoyancy and size.

For warm water with minimal suits in the "up to 3 mil" range you can assume the buoyancy of your body alone is what you need to counteract. Three mill suits compress to neutral buoyancy pretty shallow. To get this number hit a pool to determine the amount of lead it takes to get neutral in your skin or a swimsuit . Wear your mask during this test because the air bubble in it counts for a lot on some masks. Take a tank along, but don't wear it. Just set it on the bottom and breathe off the hose while trimming out until you can hover with no movement and midlin full lungs. The amount of lead worn at this point is your residual buoyancy and is the _minimum_ weight you can easily move to your back.

If the lead is is the 1 to 3 pound range go with an Al plate in the appropriate size. If the lead is in the 4 to 9 pound range go with a "standard" stainless steel size that fits. If it's over 9 pounds go with a heavy stainless plate.

1a. I expect so, but it depends more on torso length than overall height. Many shorter women are simply short legged with a "standard" length torso. The plate should fit between the top of the sholders and the pelvic girldle. Short men on the other hand tend to be short torsoed too.

1b. I dive in a t-shirt with no ditchable weight, and have neutral buoyancy at deco with my speargun. The rig gun is about 6 pounds negative though. Minimim ditchable should be whatever the difference in your exposure suit buoyancy is at deco and the maximum depth of the dive. In a t-shirt that is zero, in my 7 mill it's about 15 pounds.

2. I'd rig for the Southland first, but err on the larger bladder side for your rig. When you stard diving great lakes wrecks the changes in exposure suits will be large enough you'll want a different plate rigged for that one. Plates take a bit of fussing to "dial it in" strap adjustment wise to suit your exposure suit. Going from a 3 mil to a 7mil or drysuit is enough of a change you'll want a plate set up for it. The expensive part is the bladder, and you'll need a different one of them anyway if you start doing deep wrecks with doubles, but keeping a "warm water" plate and a "cold water plate" prerigged make sense. The larger bladder in the 27 to 40 pound lift range will add a bit of drag in the southland, but will still be useable in the cold water. I use an oversize bladder to help turn fish when hunting, but that is a special case.

3. Hoses may be swapped with the shop, but don't normally come "oversize". Credit for not using the 'short" hose in the reg box, if any, should be negotiated with the shop BEFORE purchase. My cost for a replacemnt "standard" hose and a "long" hose are in the same ballpark, but aren't quite a wash. IOW the fittings are expensive, but the hose is cheap! No special tools are necessary to swap out hoses. Ajustable crescent wrenches work, but I prefer open end or crowfoot wrenches for regulator work. There is less chance of a wrench slipping and scarring either the regulator or ME!

All y'all have a happy Mardi Gras!



FT

 

[devjr]

Jacket style vests are popular with good reason. They are a big improvement over what we used previously, the yoke vest and the Atpac wing. Should I remind you again that the yoke and Atpac came before, but the arrival of the Scubapro stabjacket blew them all away?!

Harnesses came early, the very first method of wearing a tank. They worked with doubles but sucked with singles. The "answer" was the backplate and harness, dubbed the backpac. Simultaneously came all kinds of innovations such as LP hoses, press gauges, and the diver soon became entwined in vest straps, tank straps, knife straps, mask straps, fin straps, belts and buckles. Thinking divers called for help. Scubapro was listening and came out with the original stab. This jacket had a backplate, nylon belt and snug fitting single cell made of light fabric with a short skirt. It was wonderful; it was fast, it was convenient, it was sturdy, buoyancy control was better than a submarine. Old straps started to show up at fleamarkets.

Eventually, they lost their way. There was competition with the patented Scubapro product. The response was to go bigger, heavier, with pockets and stiffer fabrics. Things started to get uncomfortable. Eventually, it became a mess. Rings and valves and pockets and adjustments and velcro. Guess what? Divers, especially newbies, like that stuff, and therein lies the impending frustration.

In comes the teck crowd, Darwin, the oohy GUI, and the resurrected, back from the dead, Atpac. Fancier, sophiticated, glitzy, yet somehow familier. Meanwhile, the stab lives on stubbornly, mocking the know it alls. "Jeez, why can't these vest wearing idiots just see the light? Wings are it! Form clubs and cults, take up the sword. Mount up, blow the bugle, convert the strokes!" My, how entertaining.

Disclosure: I use an 8 year old Seaquest "3 Dimension" back inflate. It could be improved, but not much. The fit and trim are outstanding. Thank a LDS who convinced this skeptic. Wouldn't mind having another original stabjacket in reserve, though. Both are out of production.

 

[chris_b]

FredT,

Thanks a lot for all of the information, I had been going over bouyancy stuff in my head and didn't know the term for what you called "residual bouyancy." That's a very good descriptive term for it.

This week in our OW pool session I think we are going to start some weighting and bouyancy practice, so I will be able to learn more about this in a hands-on setting.

Does anyone know who makes the backplates for American Underwater Lighting (AUL)? From their descriptions they look like they're right off of FredT's list, and they do have the "Pioneer slots" for the Halcyon single bladders. Fred, are these your plates?

Thanks again,

Chris

 

[FredT]

Originally posted by chris_b
FredT,

Does anyone know who makes the backplates for American Underwater Lighting (AUL)? From their descriptions they look like they're right off of FredT's list, and they do have the "Pioneer slots" for the Halcyon single bladders. Fred, are these your plates?


Chris

I make the stainless ones and some of their hardware. They do the AL plates locally to their design. The SST ones will take either the pioneer or rec wings. Good folks over there BTW, and make one hell of a light!

FT