BP/Wings: Why aren't they offered to first time purchasers??

[TexasMike]

I just got the SS BP for my OMS IQ pack, and picturing in my head what just the BP would look like with a properly rigged harness and wing I can now see what someone else commented on (as to why it's not presented to newer divers)....

• it "looks" too sparse and minimalist.

And since it's often said that "perception is reality", the new, uninformed diver mistakenly percieves that it is "not enough" of a system for him/her to be able to dive with comfortably.

I know a basic tenet of DIR is less is more, but I can see why it's easy to "geek out" and want to add things to this basic and simple setup (lots of pockets, danglies, chrome, and a raccoon tail)

As a possible solution to my original question, I wonder if instructors were to use BP/Wings systems during o/w instruction more, would that result in newbie divers opting for that system during purchase? The premise being that is what they are "used to" and understand.

 

[Lost Yooper]

Originally posted by TexasMike
As a possible solution to my original question, I wonder if instructors were to use BP/Wings systems during o/w instruction more, would that result in newbie divers opting for that system during purchase? The premise being that is what they are "used to" and understand.

I think it would, but it would be (might be) the last BC most of them would ever buy -- as most never go onto tech stuff. Many shops wouldn't like that too much, I think.

Take care.

Mike

 

[VTWarrenG]

Most students ABSOLUTELY buy what they use in open water class. They think "research" means asking the dive shop owner what to buy. They also think the gear they used in class must be good, because their top-notch dive center uses it.

This is why people buy Dacor regs, Air2's, Tekkie BC's, and other such nonsense. Most students don't know what a backplate is, their dive shop doesn't tell them, and they don't know where to go for real research. No, DiveTraining and Rodale's are NOT research.

And, of course, many people are not foresighted enough to see how they might change their diving habits later -- leading them to buy the simplest, cheapest (or coolest) gizmo that meets their diving needs of tomorrow -- but doesn't address their diving needs five years in the future.

- Warren

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by TexasMike
As a possible solution to my original question, I wonder if instructors were to use BP/Wings systems during o/w instruction more, would that result in newbie divers opting for that system during purchase? The premise being that is what they are "used to" and understand.

I had a chat with an instructor / dive shop owner once on this subject. He does all his OW teaching with students in BP/Wing DIR setups for one part, then everyone in Jacket BC's and traditional hose routing for another part. Then for the last part of the OW course, he let's the students choose which setup they will use. He said that almost always, the students want the BP/Wing setups. And here's the real kicker... Not all freshly certified OW divers are going to go buy thier own gear right away, they'll rent for a while, only he doen't rent out BP/Wing gear... If his students want to use that *after* the course they have to buy it... and most do! (and who said BP/Wing setups don't make money for LDS's...)

 

[Lost Yooper]

Sure, BP/wings make shops money -- once. That's the difference as I see it.



Mike

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
Sure, BP/wings make shops money -- once. That's the difference as I see it.



Mike

Yea, I suppose, but Somehow, no matter how DIR you are as a diver... there's always another peice of gear to get... drysuit, gavin scooter, HID lights, tanks, etc...

 

[Lost Yooper]

Tell me about it. I still have a $20,000+ wish list .

Mike

 

[chris_b]

Originally posted by jetblast00
your octopus gives you a wedgie??? man, where are you running that hose through???

Well, I tried to tuck it in somewhere, but the pockets of the BC are ripped (they're really old) and the instructor told me to just leave it alone for pool exercises. So when I swim across the pool the octo floats around and somehow gets sucked in behind my legs while finning and gives me a wedgie. Maybe next class I'll see if I can get away with breathing from the octo and leave the short hose dangle, but I think he'll probably have a cow if he sees a bright yellow 2nd stage in my mouth!

originally posted by VTWarrenG
And, of course, many people are not foresighted enough to see how they might change their diving habits later -- leading them to buy the simplest, cheapest (or coolest) gizmo that meets their diving needs of tomorrow -- but doesn't address their diving needs five years in the future.

I dunno, to me the bp/wings setup looks like the simplest and coolest, and with judicious shopping/purchasing it will be cheaper than any tech-wannabe BC and as cheap as most stab jackets. I just got a scuba catalog in the mail (from Divers Direct, we bought some stuff from them in Florida and so they sent us junk mail) and in the front they had this hideously retarded H.U.B. thing. It had at least 12(!) D-rings and a gazillion zippers, pockets, etc. And it cost more than one of those entry-level Drager rebreathers! I guess with all those D-rings you don't have to wear as much weight on your belt, though.

Ok, well, I've skimmed the DIR book and read the equipment chapters all they way through. So this is where I come back here and spout questions!

First of all, let me describe the kind of diving we plan on doing and what sort of exposure protection we plan to use.

Diving: for the first year or so, we'll be doing all of our diving in South Florida (retired relatives in Boynton Beach), likely from dive boats. I assume that Aluminum 80s are pretty much universal there as rentals? I can forsee myself becoming interested in some midwest diving (e.g. great lakes wrecks) but my wife will probably remain a warm-water-only person.

Suits: I have no problem spending ~2 hours snorkeling in 72~74 degree water in only a swimsuit, while my wife gets chilly after maybe 30 minutes in a 3mm shorty in the same water. I'm guessing I'll be fine in a 3mm suit and she will probably want a 5/3 or 5mm suit or maybe a 3mm jane/jacket.

Given that, I wanted to ask:
(1) What sort of backplate would be appropriate for each of us (SS, light SS, Aluminum)?
(1a) My wife is 5'0" tall, I assume she'd want e.g. a "short" plate from FredT?
(1b) What is considered a minimum safe amount of ditchable weight? I think this would have some bearing on backplate choice.

(2) With the answer to (1), what lift wings would be appropriate for our type of diving? (I'm guessing 18 or 27lb lift?)

(3) This is a "long-hose" question: when buying a regulator, can you specify your desired hose lengths? Or do you need to purchase separate hoses if you want, e.g., a 5' hose? Is switching out hoses a DIY proposition with cheap/simple tools or do you need a shop to reconfigure these for you?

I realize this last isn't really a "BC Forum" question, but this seems to be a pretty relaxed board and I hope it's ok.

Thanks so much for all of your input and expertise!

Chris

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by chris_b

(3) This is a "long-hose" question: when buying a regulator, can you specify your desired hose lengths? Or do you need to purchase separate hoses if you want, e.g., a 5' hose? Is switching out hoses a DIY proposition with cheap/simple tools or do you need a shop to reconfigure these for you?

Hi Chris,
You will need to buy the 5~7' hose as the second stage will come with a standard length. It is not hard to change hoses if you have a couple of open end wrenches...always use two wrenches at the second stage so you don't unscrew the valve body from the second stage housing.... but I sure that if you need help your local shop can show you how and if you are purchasing gear there will probably do it for you without charge.

Tip: save the 36~40" octopus hose for use on a deco or stage bottle later when you get into tech diving.... or just sent it your favorite Uncle for his dwindling collection of loose hoses.

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by chris_b

Given that, I wanted to ask:
(1) What sort of backplate would be appropriate for each of us (SS, light SS, Aluminum)?
(1a) My wife is 5'0" tall, I assume she'd want e.g. a "short" plate from FredT?
(1b) What is considered a minimum safe amount of ditchable weight? I think this would have some bearing on backplate choice.

(2) With the answer to (1), what lift wings would be appropriate for our type of diving? (I'm guessing 18 or 27lb lift?)

(3) This is a "long-hose" question: when buying a regulator, can you specify your desired hose lengths? Or do you need to purchase separate hoses if you want, e.g., a 5' hose? Is switching out hoses a DIY proposition with cheap/simple tools or do you need a shop to reconfigure these for you?

I realize this last isn't really a "BC Forum" question, but this seems to be a pretty relaxed board and I hope it's ok.

Thanks so much for all of your input and expertise!

Chris

Backplates: a general purpose for Al vs. SS is: Al is lighter, so you might want it in fresh water where you are already less boyant as oppsed to SS which is heavier to give you a little more weight in salt water, where you are more pos. boyant.

The min safe didtchable weight is whatever you can't swim to the surface in. but although my BP/Wing/harness/tanks wouldn't be the first thing I'd want to ditch, at a shallow rec. depth I could and swim up (CESA style...) easily,

Wings: 3mm florida diving... 18lb... maybe 27lb if you wife is going to have a thicker wetsuit, and therefore more weight.

regs don't ussually come with the long hose, you can buy them from seperatly and I know Halcyon sells kits (other companies probably do to.) and you can change hoses yourself with an adjustable wrench...

in fact, 2 tools that every diver should have are and adjustable wrench (most important) and a set of allen wrenches... they'll fix just about everything in a dive shop.