advanced kicks with splits...the video

[Allen42]

As I never claimed it couldn't be done.... I don't tend to proclaim any absolutes.

I just was (hopefully) pointing out some innefficiencies in the frog kick (which I think would will still be true in a set of blades).

And I was also asking about the backwards kick. I like and accept the "too close" explanation completely. The "getting away from a bad critter" reason doesn't fly with me if it takes anywhere near that long to move backwards in any fin.

Just my thoughts, and I guess I'll start practicing a backwards kick.

-Allen

 

[MikeFerrara]

He was hardly able to move backward at all. When he did, he did so by inventing a new kick that would be very silty.

We measure the effectiveness of these kicks by the speed of response and the amount of control for the amount of movement. We want to move as little as possible and get the the motion and control we need from it. A split fin is the exact oposite of everything we're looking for.

Like DD said, if you watch the fin tips, especially on the back kick you can see how they're fighting him. You can't load the kick at all because while you're trying to push the fin one way, it's going the other and wanting to push you foreward again. Might as well put noodles on your feet.

Back up with your hands?...

I can see it now...I'm ascending face to face with two others. We're face to face like a little three point star. I start to drift in a little too close. Normally I would give a little reverse frog or two and move back into position. Not this time though. I'm wearing splits so I start frantically waving my hands in his face probably slapping him a few times and making him think he's in a fight even if I don't.

I've said it before. If you want to be able to back up wearing splits, you need to wear them on your hands.

 

[Uncle Pug]

I saw a guy eating his soup with a single chop stick and wondered why he didn't use a spoon...

...or just pick the bowl up and drink out of it.

 

[detroit diver]

chrpai once bubbled...



I think by now everyone knows splits are designed for shorter, faster kick cycles. So wouldn't it make sense the same would apply for frog kicks and backwards?

How do you measure effiency? The amount of work the diver LOOKS likes he is doing compared to how far he goes, or the amount of work ( measured in say fatigue ) that the diver actually does in comparison to how far he goes.

Rapid kick cycles may look less elegant and look like more work, but is it really?

BTW I love the way the argument is changed to a matter of effiency after its been proven that it can be done.

Your question on efficiency is answered by that video. You can measure it either way. The diver is not going far with each kick, AND the more he kicks the more tired he will get.

Rapid kick cycles may feel easier with these fins, but you're not pushing any water. They are less efficient. More work. Physics.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I still don't see the diver in this video doing kicks that will accomplish anything. In my mind, that means that you can't do the kicks in those fins. You can make the motions, but nothing is happening that will do any good for you.

Please re-read my skydiving comment.

 

[Birdman]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Good video thanks. Mind if I use it to show students?

Please feel free to use it to show students. Thanks for the positive comments.

 

[Big-t-2538]

chrpai once bubbled...
How do you measure effiency?

Well, it took him 40 seconds and 20 kicks to go a grand total of 6 feet (and I'm being generous)...I'm not necessarily all about apeed...but 20 kicks to move 2 yard is futile to me....not to mention he isn't using a technique that isn't going to silt up something directly below him....if you notice he was effectively (and I use that word loosely) able to move backwards only when his fin tips were pointed towards the bottom....at the beginning of the video...where he tries to back up using a technique that won't silt the place out, you see the fin tips going all over the place, and the divert just oscillating a few inches in the water....

What is your definition of effective?

 

[detroit diver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
I saw a guy eating his soup with a single chop stick and wondered why he didn't use a spoon...

...or just pick the bowl up and drink out of it.

I write 3 paragraphs to make a point, and you do it in one line....

Sheesh.

 

[detroit diver]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Well, it took him 40 seconds and 20 kicks to go a grand total of 6 feet (and I'm being generous)...I'm not necessarily all about apeed...but 20 kicks to move 2 yard is futile to me....not to mention he isn't using a technique that isn't going to silt up something directly below him....if you notice he was effectively (and I use that word loosely) able to move backwards only when his fin tips were pointed towards the bottom....at the beginning of the video...where he tries to back up using a technique that won't silt the place out, you see the fin tips going all over the place, and the divert just oscillating a few inches in the water....

What is your definition of effective?

One more thing. Birdman's trim is pretty good. Imagine someone trying this in a more vertical position. It would be even more worthless than it is now.

 

[jonnythan]

chrpai once bubbled...
BTW I love the way the argument is changed to a matter of effiency after its been proven that it can be done.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that the frog kick is impossible with split fins.

It just looks stupid as hell and the video shows how incredibly inefficient it is.

 

[MikeFerrara]

chrpai once bubbled...




BTW I love the way the argument is changed to a matter of effiency after its been proven that it can be done.

You can do the kicks with no fins at all. It's just a waste of time.