Why the Prejudice about DIR or GUE

[lamont]

Lets take for example this post that keeps getting linked to. In it there's a reference to what they consider to be an ideal OW course. (This is not aimed at the poster but at the topic.)

You're quoting me. I wasn't aware that I was speaking for the entire borg collective. I was posting what I would consider an ideal OW course.

And actually this post was made in the Whine and Cheese forum and I was deliberately going over-the-top about how I thought OW courses should be changed.

"long hose in OW. octos relegated to dustbin of history"

There is no valid reason to require a long hose in OW diving. In cave or wreck diving it may be a requirement for sharing air while being able to move through narrow passages but in OW rec diving it's a nicety, not a necessity.

I could go with 40" primary instead of a long hose, but I firmly believe that donating the primary in the mouth and going to a bungee'd backup is better. And my strong belief is driven more by a fatal accident that I was involved in than a desire to spread religion. OOAs are the important skill underwater that you want to most highly tune your gear towards. In other cases, I was trying for a little over-the-top, here I'm a little bit serious. I'm also certain that it's never going to happen, but at least I'm free to whine about it.

"BP/W or back-inflates only. jacket BCs relegated to dustbin of history"

Again, more complete rubbish. There is no valid reason why a jacket BC can't be used safely in OW diving.

Again, I helped to rescue a guy 2 years ago who was working himself into a panic because he couldn't breathe due to overinflating his jacket BC that was too small for his waist. I know that done properly you can dive in a jacket BC. I would, however, like to see the world reversed so that back-inflates were more popular than jacket BCs and that newbie divers who didn't know what they were doing would be diving Zeagles.

And here I'm definitely going over the top. I ran into a situation where a Jacket BC was bad. I'm Whining about it and wanting the entire world to change my opinion. Deliberately. That's the forum.

"nitrox, gas analysis and ability to read a gas analysis sticker (green and yellow bumper stickers relegated to dustin of history)"

More rubbish, there is no reason why an OW diver needs to know this. There are many divers today, and throughout history, that will never breath anything but regular air.

That assumes that the shop doesn't accidentally blow air onto a rich nitrox mixture and turn around and rent it to them. I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that divers should get a broader education about diving and be able to take steps to become less trusting of their diveshop and their DMs. Trust, but verify.

And again, I'm going over the top. Mostly I'm annoyed at the bumper stickers that I've had to place on my tanks because some idiotic OW diver might try to use my double 130s and exceed the MOD of whatever gas is in them. I want the world to change because it annoys me. Again, whine and cheese forum.

But really, I'm not going over the top too much. A lot of places now are pushing AOW/Nitrox combined courses and this just bumps the learning about Nitrox a little closer.

It's the desire to push stuff like this on everybody that makes some of them look like religious fanatics which brings about the push back from others. Their counter-argument is that dive training by other agencies is lacking, and that may be true, but it' a completely seperate subject and one that forced gear selection and nitrox classes isn't going to solve.

Blah, blah, blah...

Dude, you're lifting a post of mine out of the whine and cheese forum and acting like I've penned the manifesto on how DIR is going to take over the world.

I think another reason they get bashed is things like the TOS for the DIR forum. It seems pretty weak when rules have to be set up so that nobody is allowed to voice an opposing point of view. Herman pointed it out perfectly. He said something that, and I read it, seemed like a very level headed response to the OP's original question that didn't say anything bad about DIR other than pointing out that there's middle ground between going full DIR and not doing it at all. He was immediately jumped on for not following the party line and violating the TOS that says thou shalt not challenge DIR. Doing things like that doesn't do anything to help earn respect. If the position is strong then there should be no problem arguing it based solely on its merit.

So, what causes the bashing? Attitude. Or more specifically, the attitude projected by an apparently small minority of their members.

The DIR forum has a designated audience of DIR-oriented members. It isn't to squelch debate, its to keep one little place of scubaboard free of our need to justify our existance. Otherwise the DIR forum just degenerates into endless debates that all the DIR members of the board have made up their minds on a long time ago. It is not your right to hop into the DIR forum and challenge RTodd to a debate over pony bottles -- I'm sure he doesn't give a ****. The rules of the DIR forum are so that I can go in there and ask RTodd about more advanced diving that what I'm doing right now and try to learn something -- the forum is about me and RTodd and the other DIR divers and not you. Don't take it so personally, you've got the rest of the board. If you want to get into arguments about why DIR doesn't do something some other way, then just take it to Basic Scuba or Technical Diving or whatever.

 

[dsteding]

So so viz?!?!?!?!?!? I saw a bolt snap from 20' away in the Sound in August!

Only because I told you where it was . . . .

Okay, so maybe it was better than so-so.

 

[Blitz]

details details....

 

[fire_diver]

I think another reason they get bashed is things like the TOS for the DIR forum. It seems pretty weak when rules have to be set up so that nobody is allowed to voice an opposing point of view.

The DIR forum is FOR DIR DIVERS! DUH! The TOS is only stating that this forum is for these divers. Come in and talk if you want. If you do not like DIR, DON"T POST IT IN THIS FORUM. Same goes for the solo forum. It's to prevent trolls from constantly starting flame wars.

 

[Bigcape]

The question itself (by TOS is placed in the wrong spot) unless the original poster was only looking for DIR responses (I don't know for sure, but I think he was not), then it should have been posted in Basic Discussions.

Of course I was. I wanted input from the horses mouth.

 

[Bigcape]

Yes it was and it was a valid question for that forum.

However, since most of the answer you got were from non-DIR trained posters, the rest of the thread is technically violating the 'special rules' for that forum. So those who suggested moving it out here get their wish...

Have fun and play nice

Thank you for the validation.

However, I had no idea there were such strong feelings. So strong that this thread got moved to general scuba questions because non-DIR trained people responded.

That means EVERY thread in the DIR forum ought to end up here. Read them.

 

[TheRedHead]

I personally think it is more informative to ask persons who do have prejudice against something why they have it rather than asking the group who are the object of prejudice.

 

[jeraldjcook]

TheRedHead, this question is for you directed at you concerning one of your previous comments, but anyone please feel free to answer.

Not trying to bash, this is truely a question. Can you explain to me why a long hose back-up it better? I understand it is superior in a cave situation, but if I'm sharing air in OW, I want to be able to hang on to that person so they don't bolt to the surface in a panic. If I have a hold of them, I can dump their air, etc.

Sorry if this is off topic.

 

[Bigcape]

I personally think it is more informative to ask persons who do have prejudice against something why they have it rather than asking the group who are the object of prejudice.

I chose to ask who I asked. Which group are you? Maybe you can answer the question for me from your perspective.

 

[TheRedHead]

Not all air sharing occurs when someone is in a panic and out of air. It's much better to share air in a low air situation while you can still breathe and there is also the case of problems that can be solved with a diver's air supply while sharing air. With a long hose, sharing air can occur as a preemptive measure to prevent someone from running out of air or in situations where a problem like a free-flowing regulator my be fixed while the diver's valves are shut down. It doesn't preclude holding onto a panicked diver, but it gives you more options in other situations.