Why I have decided to stop shopping for ANYTHING at the LDS

[TomP]

Thing is ... that $3 air fill may have cost the LDS upwards of $40 when you add up the cost of the fill station, banks, electricity, annual maintenance, taxes, and overhead. And that class you paid $90 for may have cost the LDS upwards of $250 per student when you add up the cost of classroom space, materials, equipment, staff, pool, gear, insurance, and transport.

Lamont is quite correct about the skewed business model ...

Skewed business model... If these numbers are anywhere close to real then that's the understatement of the century.

 

[Firefyter]

Thing is ... that $3 air fill may have cost the LDS upwards of $40 when you add up the cost of the fill station, banks, electricity, annual maintenance, taxes, and overhead.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm sorry, Bob, but I don't buy into this one either. There just isn't that much maintenance that needs to be done. We have a top of the line Bauer at work, and while the initial expense was rather high, the maintenance is next to nil. We move a LOT of air through it in a years time, cubic foot wise. Even figuring it at $3 per fill, this thing has more than paid for itself in the last 5 years. From that point on, it's just electricity and inspections along with regular filter changes. We can pencil whip this thing to death, but in the end, regular air just doesn't cost that much.

 

[dbg40]

I have got to wonder, when is the last time anybody saw a class for $90.00?? and if it was Did you stop and look at the mark up on the Materials.. I just paid 35.00 for a DVD for a class that was worth about $2.99 nevermind the 30 page book that cost $49.00 plus the cost of the "Class" of $129.00. Nevermind The "Air Fill" he charged me for to go and finish my Cert in open water... The class was in the back of the LDS ( No Overhead there) There were many intruptions with people stoping in to say hi to the instructor, people going into the back store room or just walking through,because the class was till open... I am not buying the "Overhead thing".. These LDS will stuff you in a closet for a class as long as it does not cut into their profit...

! TOTALLY agree, Classes are expensive, period. Owners pay instructors little to teach these classes, and again, $175.00 for nitrox, one session, virtually no overhead, as the student covers ALL of that. No? than lets say it cost the lds $300.00 to conduct one class for one night. That is covered by two students, what about the other 6 people in the class? $$$$! And I dont need to tell ANY diver that nitrox is not the only "extra" c-card you can earn. It is a straight out racket. EVERYTHING has been made into a new certification, at considerable cost to divers that just love to collect cards. It's almost like being a kid. Who has the most ball cards? I win! I will never be convinced that classes are being discounted, or being operated at a loss to entice divers into the shop. If it were true there would never be so many "specialty" classes offered. No shop would knowingly stick their heads into the noose, and offer to kick the horse for you. Exactly the reverse, they make LOTS of money on them, and work ever so dilligently at creating more, and trying to convince you that youre a bad diver if you dont get them.

 

[Xanthro]

Speciality classes usually make money, but Open Water certification is a money loser. Even paying minimum wage, it's a money loser.

Now, around here, nitrox costs as much as open water, and doesn't include any of the dives, but charging less than $200 for open water loses money.

 

[DEEPSEAWOLF]

I dealt with the same things in the martial arts field. How many colors of belts are there now? That depends on the system and the school. Where the *%## did the camoflage belt come from? MONEY! American economy is based on give a little, drop a hook, reel 'em back in for more. The repeat customer. the problem is, when service sucks, they lose customers. I have three LDS. We are landlocked so it's even harder for them to stay in business. HOWEVER, I have gone to one and found a camera that sells online with an MSRP of 300 and seen a 600+ tag on it. I brought this to their attention and was told that was this year's price on the books. NO! That was the prce for the ADVANCED model! They are trying to run a store with minimal overhead, but everything is MSRP! I will buy small stuff from them, but have found it better to drive the two hours to a shop in a CROWDED LDS area where competition is bred for larger items. If they cannot meet or come close to the cost plus S&H of the online prices, I just order it online. When you look at a BC in their stores for 750, and can get the same online for 300 less, that's the cost of TWO TANKS! I usually request a quote in writing and if they don't meet that, I request any prepaid funds back. I have been told the, "I'm not making any money off this" line as well. HELLO! Guilt trip? That's NOT good business. You quote a price, you sell at that price! Less preferably. Jump to help a customer, apologize or delays, make up for shortcomings with kindness and discounts. If it's too expensive to float a diveshop, rent a warehouse instead of a shop and do mail order to supplement. You have the best of both worlds and a lot less overhead. If it still doesn't work, close it and let others do the dirty work. This is why I'm doing the Scuba Center. I can drop 3 grand for what I would have paid on two sets of gear, become a dealer, then get four sets for the same price! I can put that gear on consignment, sell it outright, or just keep it as spares! Either way when there's a two for one sale, I'm there!

 

[cornfed]

trying to convince you that youre a "******" if you dont get them.

That is probably the single most egregious misuse of the term I've ever seen.

 

[Damselfish]

Speciality classes usually make money, but Open Water certification is a money loser. Even paying minimum wage, it's a money loser.

Now, around here, nitrox costs as much as open water, and doesn't include any of the dives, but charging less than $200 for open water loses money.

Agree, I don't know the numbers but given the class, pool and dive time, gear, overhead, materials, etc. involved many OW classes seem cheap to me. As compared to what is often charged for specialties vs. actual amount of time and stuff that goes into them.

If classes are held in a shop why would there be there no overhead with that? Space isn't free, they pay for it, heat/cool it, insure it, furnish it, etc. If they didn't need class space they could have a smaller shop or use the space for retail.

$35 vs $2.99 for a DVD? A DVD may be cheap to physically make, but the DVD had to be planned, written, filmed, produced, etc. and those costs are being amortized over the units sold. Whatever organization is selling them is using revenue from them to pay for building and staff that indirectly supports the whole thing but doesn't directly take in money. Same with book costs, they're much more than the costs of printing the book!

 

[android]

Thing is ... that $3 air fill may have cost the LDS upwards of $40 when you add up the cost of the fill station, banks, electricity, annual maintenance, taxes, and overhead.

This isn't realistic accounting. It's like saying any given long distance phone call costs $40 because AT&T had to pay for the infrastructure and the electricity.

 

[rje634]

but Open Water certification is a money loser. Even paying minimum wage, it's a money loser.

This may be true but, at the LDS I took my OW course at almost every student in the class (around 10 - 12 if I remember correctly) bought there masks, fins, boots, and weight belt and weightsat the LDS. Now I know that the LDS was charging MSRP for everything the students bought. So by getting the students to buy the equipment "required" for the course, the LDS had to at least break even but I would expect that they made a profit.

 

[lamont]

I find it almost comical (as well as sad) that those that say " I can get it cheaper online" dont fully realize the difference between a LDS & an online shop with little/minimal overhead. Now, thats not to say that online shops don't have their place......

People keep on saying what you just said like its some kind of revelation. The fact that there's a *difference* still doesn't make the LDS model a viable business model in the current climate.

Yes, people will comparison shop and buy cheap gear online. Yes, this may hurt their ability to get airfills. Both of my favorite shops for airfills are now apparently going out of business (DAMN YOU LEISUREPRO SHOPPERS!!!). I may be forced to drive out to Issaquah for airfills pretty soon which is just a royal pain in the butt...

The problem though isn't the people who are shopping for lower priced gear, but the LDS model which doesn't work anymore becuase they don't have a local monopoly over scuba gear purchases. If we want to get airfills closer to where we live and dive, we're going to have to come up with a better business (or co-op) model. Its has to evolve, or else we all need to buy compressors...