Why do we teach flutter kick at all?

[Griffo]

People are actually taught kicking styles in OW?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm only a lowly novice, but I don't think the flutter kick needs to be taught, it's the default kick that comes natural if you throw a person in the water with a pair of fins on their feet.

Actually, for most that would be a bicycle kick ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post Merged at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:37 PM ----------

In recreational bc's with over-weighted students and poor buoyancy and trim the frog kick is very difficult. New students are already task loaded and learning the frog takes a lot of time. I think it should be introduced at the ow level but expecting them to master it or even use it won't happen. I know OW instructors that can't frog kick.

This is very true ... reasonable trim is pretty important to the effectiveness of a frog kick. These past eight months I've been teaching a lot of skills workshops ... a four-dive program designed to be a "bridge" between OW and AOW. The first dive involves a lot of working on weighting and weight distribution in order to achieve good trim. We do static drills ... learning how to just sit still in the water. Dive 2 we continue this effort while adding good techniques for ascents and descents ... working on being able to do these horizontally, descending without touching the bottom and ascending while facing your buddy and matching ascent speeds. It isn't until dive 3 that I can usually introduce them to a frog kick. By then they've got their trim dialed in pretty good and can manage a reasonable effort. If they pick it up reasonably, in dive 4 I introduce them to helicopter and back kicks. But the primary focus of dives 3 and 4 are buddy skills ... positioning and communication.

After that, they're pretty well prepared to take my AOW class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tracydr]

Who says there is no rest period in the flutter kick? I teach my students to "glide" with each flutter kick like coasting after pedaling a bike. They learn not to bicycle as that just waste energy and one night they learn, frog, and a one finned dolphin- in case they lose a fin. It is easier for most people to master the flutter as with a good frog you need to rotate the fins 90 degrees which some people can not do. Remember most diver never go in caves or ship wrecks so the frog can easily become one more thing that was taught and forgotten along the way.

I've never tried a one-finned dolphin kick. I'll have to try that in the pool, if it gets below 110 next week.
I've found, with no-fins, frog kick seems most efficient. I use it in the pool without fins if I'm too lazy to go get my booties out of my dive bag. I'm still working on the back-kick and decent no-silt kicks with fins. Harder than it looks to really up the anty. I can see why GUE Fundies is so hard to get a "pass" the first time. The level of bouyancy skills are far above what the average diver strives for.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The flutter is the easiest and most efficient kick for OW. It also has a tremendous amount of power.

(Efficient = greatest distance traveled for least amount of gas consumed)

But sometimes all that power has disadvantages. Earlier this evening I was down looking for a sixgill shark. Found one that was about 7 feet long, and was filming it when I noticed two divers passing about 20 feet away. I waved my light at 'em and shined it down onto this rather large animal. They were moving so powerfully they swam right on by and never even saw it. Later in the parking lot I showed them the video ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post Merged at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:50 PM ----------

... can I frog when my buddy flutters? Because if that doesn't work out then you have your reason why you should teach flutter kicking - so people can actually dive with their buddies.

My limited experience with buddies so far is that they move faster than I want to go. If I started using a slower way of kicking too....

Yes, you can frog when your buddy flutters ... matching speeds isn't a matter of kicking styles, it's a matter of desiring to do so. If your buddy is moving faster than you want to go, tell him to slow down. The hand signal is the same as a cop or flagger will give you in traffic ... flat hand horizontal, palm down, pushing downward slowly.

If your buddy insists on going faster than you want to go and you can't get them to slow down a bit, then consider finding a better dive buddy ... CO2 buildup is not fun ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post Merged at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:50 PM ----------

People are actually taught kicking styles in OW?

In my OW class I learned flutter kick, dolphin kick and frog kick. I also learned that of the three, the frog kick was the least useful for scuba diving. I subsequently learned to use it most of the time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nemrod]

Hmm, let's see, was on some sort of a wreck out of WPB, current was ripping, as I went along the tag line I used a flutter, as I got to the anchor rode, with my camera in left hand and my right keeping loose contact with the rode I used a side or scissor kick, once on the wreck and the diminished current, I switched to a frog.

I generally swim a mile or two every other day. Some of my workouts I use a cut down pair of fins for intervals. In the course of fooling around during long winter weekends I have timed myself with a variety of kicks and as well, a slew of different fins. I am much faster over a distance with a flutter kick with just about any fin type I have tried. I have done these swims in full scuba gear as an experiment with similar results, though much slower .

N

 

[gcbryan]

I think the frog kick is mainly about control and the flutter is mainly about speed so it just depends what you need to do on a certain segment of your dive.

For my diving control usually is more important. On a long swim speed may be the more important factor especially if it isn't just above the bottom. However I don't particularly like using Jet fins for flutter kicking so frog is usually the way I go.

 

[jh_MacLeod]

The classic freestyle type of straight leg flutter kick will kick up stuff from the bottom if you are remotely close to it. The problem is the kick directs water movement downward. And I absolutely hate it when someone in front of me kicking up the bottom reducing viz even just in open water. I know this can sound too harsh. I was one of those divers before I know better, probably still do it from time to time now. But I agree non silting kicking technique should be mandatory in OW class. It is not that hard to learn and even if not perfectly executed everytime, silting will be dramtically reduced.

First, to answer TSandM's question directly: because it is a very useful and efficient kick in may open-water situations.

Second, the issue of silting: eelnoraa, you mention only the classic freestyle flutter kick, and of course that type of flutter kicking near a silty bottom is not advisable. But there are several modified flutter kicks which I find useful. I actually did a test with a buddy last time I was diving an extremely silty site in Mabul. He was wearing his Scubapro jets and doing the frog kick; I put on my Smoke-on-the-Water splits and used a flutter kick. We positioned ourselves side-by-side and two meters apart with our chests about one or two inches (as close as we could maintain without touching) from the bottom. We swam a straight line for about 30 meters across a gently sloping muck bottom. Then we stopped and looked back to see the results: neither of us had disturbed the bottom much, but my friend agreed that his trail was actually much more noticable than mine. Why? Because I kicked in slow-motion and only applied a little power to the upstroke. His frog kick was actually generating more downward swirls and thus disturbed the fine silt slightly more than my upward flutter kick.

So, while I still have my old Jets and use them in tight situations; in the open water diving I've mostly been doing for the past few years, I actually prefer the long splits and several modified flutter kicks I have developed which work well with these particular fins. And of course I don't flutter kick all the time; just when it feels right for conditions. The smokes are actually stiff enough to do a very powerful modified frog kick, so I'm constantly switching between the two. So my point is: it isn't necessarily the tool (the fin or the kick); but more, how you use it :-^).

 

[Buoyant1]

A dive instructor I did a "discover scuba" with in the Keys back before I was certified told me:

"the flutter kick is only good for getting away from the shark that just latched on to your buddy...Learn the frog kick as soon as you can!"

I always thought that was cool!

 

[DaleC]

A dive instructor I did a "discover scuba" with in the Keys back before I was certified told me:

"the flutter kick is only good for getting away from the shark that just latched on to your buddy...Learn the frog kick as soon as you can!"

I always thought that was cool!

What? and lose such an excellent videographic opportunity!

 

[Hank49]

I am much faster over a distance with a flutter kick with just about any fin type I have tried. I have done these swims in full scuba gear as an experiment with similar results, though much slower .

N

I agree. If I really need to get somewhere fast, on the surface or under water, I flutter kick.
The flutter and dolphin are the preferred kicks for free divers also, meaning they get the farthest on the least O2 consumption.