Why do we teach flutter kick at all?

[Doc Harry]

My question is, can frogs and flutters coexist?

It is best master a wide variety of kicks and use that kick best suited for that situation.

What are you basing the efficiency claim on?

I did extensive testing on an underwater course at a constant depth, measuring speed versus gas consumption versus kick type. I measured 3 or 4 different speeds with each kick type, from ridiculously slow speeds to full-out maximal exertion speeds.

My conclusions were that (a) gas consumption rises steeply with increasing speed regardless of the kick type, and (b) the flutter gave me a significantly better efficiency than the frog (i.e., greater distance traveled with a lower volume of gas used), and (c) in an emergency with limited air supplies, a slow, relaxed flutter kick would get me the farthest distance using the least amount of gas than any other kick.

 

[abyss_scuba]

Who says there is no rest period in the flutter kick? I teach my students to "glide" with each flutter kick like coasting after pedaling a bike. They learn not to bicycle as that just waste energy and one night they learn, frog, and a one finned dolphin- in case they lose a fin. It is easier for most people to master the flutter as with a good frog you need to rotate the fins 90 degrees which some people can not do. Remember most diver never go in caves or ship wrecks so the frog can easily become one more thing that was taught and forgotten along the way.

 

[Thalassamania]

I can see it now: The PADI Frog-kicking Specialty Class. Poor, poor frogs.

 

[Them]

It is best master a wide variety of kicks and use that kick best suited for that situation.

So that is a NO vote?

Bummer.

 

[mathauck0814]

I do teach OW in a BP/W with a long hose. I introduce the frog and flutter kick and generally let students choose which way they go.

I suspect that why the industry at large doesn't do it is because of the fins that dive shops like to sell to students at inflated prices and their floppy nature that makes the frog kick less effective.

 

[ffdiver]

The flutter kick has it's place, as does any kick. Teach them all, the main point to teach is when to use each of those kicks.

 

[Doc Harry]

So that is a NO vote?

Bummer.

The answer is yes. In any given situation there may be a variety of kicks that can be used.
Can I not porpoise in OW while my buddy flutters?
Can I not flutter while my buddy frogs?

 

[JamesK]

Because then no one would buy those expensive split fins. I actually never learned a flutter kick other than modified flutter. I was taught that, frog, and modified frog in OW class.

 

[ADeadlierSnake]

Lol...don't be snubs..

Is like if on the first six months of college they teach you differential equations and the fast Fourier transform... what's the point if you don't know calculus...

The same with scuba the ow course you are barely surviving and loosing the fear of being underwater...

LDS should do seminars or quick classes for different kicking styles even if it is not included in padi' naui' etc....

Ummm....no. Good (not perfect) buoyancy, trim, and propulsion are the very foundation of being comfortable underwater. Control is how you "lose the fear of being underwater". Not something that comes afterwards. And I am sorry, but the frog kick isnt calculus. It is the most basic of basic things that you can do underwater, and it should be one of the very first things taught. Besides, you cant teach someone to overcome their fear of being underwater (assuming they have that fear). What you can do however is teach them how to best perform underwater. Like how to use a frog kick.

I am not sure why instructors dont teach it. I would guess that a lot of OW instructors themselves use flutter kick. I wasnt taught frog kick, but I used it from the get go simply because I watched my instructor, and thats what she happened to use. I dont think many people realize its importance. Not to mention that it is frustrating when divers come through and silt up the place because they werent taught basic buoyancy control, trim, or kicks during open water. So theres the courtesy factor.

 

[g1138]

In short I think it's because flutter is simplistic, frog is not. Flutter you fluidly lock your knees, kick with your hips, up-down, repeat.
Frog involves a set-up stroke, a power stroke, and a glide phase. Different movements for each phase and more coordination.

Does it help that some instructors started as divers before ever becoming swimmers, let alone submerged swimmers?

Also, reason #2: split fins.