Why do we teach flutter kick at all?

[TSandM]

I was just reading the story of the girl who almost died in the Florida cave this weekend, and watching some of the video of the cave, and it occurred to me . . . Why is flutter kick the default kick for divers? Very few new divers do it well, which would probably be the case with frog kick, too -- but at least the frog kick has a rest phase, and the potential to reduce the mess made by novices, so long as they are not horribly out of trim. I would assume we teach flutter kick because it is the most like swimming -- but diving is not swimming, so why do we use a kick underwater that may not be the best one?

Has anybody ever tried teaching OW students to frog kick? (We don't, but we do try to encourage them into a modified flutter kind of kick.)

 

[Dhboner]

I know that a local shop here in Ontario (Dans's Dive Shop) teaches open water students in BP/Wing and frog kick right from the beginning. Matt (the owner) is very passionate about ensuring that new divers learn safe, low impact diving right from the start.

Bob (Toronto)

 

[cascas]

Has anybody ever tried teaching OW students to frog kick? (We don't, but we do try to encourage them into a modified flutter kind of kick.)

I don't teach OW much, but if I do, it's in BP/wing and frogkicking.... I do show flutter but just to make a point...

 

[DiveMaven]

I don't think most OW classes even address kicking styles. Flutter kick is the first kick taught in swimming, so I think that's what most people are comfortable with. When you add in the advent of split fins that are specifically designed to work best with a small flutter kick, it just seems like it might be a losing battle in a basic OW class.

Personally, the only time I ever use a flutter kick is when I'm in current and need power, but I'm a former competitive swimmer, so my flutter kick is efficient and powerful...unlike most divers I see. Otherwise, I frog kick exclusively while diving.

 

[nimoh]

I think it's funny that you compare it to swimming (although and obvious comparison) since in swimming the only stroke in which most of the propulsion comes from the kick is the breast stroke...which uses a frog kick

In freestyle and backstroke (where the flutter kick is used), the kick makes a minimal contribution to propulsion as compared with the arms.

In my OW class, I had different instructors for the pool and OW parts, and both instructors primarily used the frog kick. They also encouraged students to use it, claiming it to be a more efficient kick even though students were free to use whatever they wanted to.

 

[Thalassamania]

I teach flutter kick, dolphin kick and frog kick (well ... actually a highly modified wedge-kick if you want to get technical about it). Each has it's place, advantage and disadvantage ... e.g., have you ever tried to to pull or push a small boat or dash through a big surf break with a frog kick? n Take a look at cormorants some time, immediately upon full immersion they use a dolphin kick to get down the first ten or twenty feet (I hypothesize this is to overcome the buoyancy of air trapped in their feathers) and then shift over to a flutter kick that they use to get to the bottom and cruise around down there. It's kind of a low gear/high gear thing for them.

 

[Rhodesaz]

The LDS (which I no longer use) that taught me OW & AOW went through great lengths to teach the flutter kick using the hips not the knees. They would "yell" at you if they caught you bicycling. I've never fogotten those "one sided conversations".

I didn't learn about the frog kick until I joined SB. One day soon I've got to get with my new instructor and learn the frog kick. I also think the dolphine kick would be usefull at times.

 

[ccx2]

I'm only a lowly novice, but I don't think the flutter kick needs to be taught, it's the default kick that comes natural if you throw a person in the water with a pair of fins on their feet.

 

[nimoh]

I teach flutter kick, dolphin kick and frog kick (well ... actually a highly modified wedge-kick if you want to get technical about it). Each has it's place, advantage and disadvantage ... e.g., have you ever tried to to pull or push a small boat or dash through a big surf break with a frog kick? n Take a look at cormorants some time, immediately upon full immersion they use a dolphin kick to get down the first ten or twenty feet (I hypothesize this is to overcome the buoyancy of air trapped in their feathers) and then shift over to a flutter kick that they use to get to the bottom and cruise around down there. It's kind of a low gear/high gear thing for them.

I agree, the efficiency of the frog kick comes from the glide. If you are going into a current or towing/pushing something such that you come to a stop instead of gliding during the frog kick then you lose your momentum and your efficiency. Like you said, each kick has its place.

I was going by the OP talking about new OW students, and I think that for most of their diving (obviously there are exceptions) at least for a little while the frog kick would be more useful.

---------- Post Merged at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:00 PM ----------

I'm only a lowly novice, but I don't think the flutter kick needs to be taught, it's the default kick that comes natural if you throw a person in the water with a pair of fins on their feet.

If you throw a person in the water that doesn't know how to swim, they will generally dog paddle, but that doesn't make the dog paddle a good stroke to teach in swimming lessons

I think you are right though that it is the default kick that students will fall back on, and perhaps it is easier for an instructor to just let them kick however they want and focus on teaching other important things.

 

[skearse]

I'm only a lowly novice, but I don't think the flutter kick needs to be taught, it's the default kick that comes natural if you throw a person in the water with a pair of fins on their feet.

I was thinking along the same lines...bicycling seems to come pretty naturally to most people, maybe because it's similar to 'walking,' so straightening that out into a flutter kick is probably the most natural/easiest? OT-I'm glad someone posted what a diving frog kick is-it's not what I used back when I was a breaststroker (yes, now I'm just a stroke ;-P ).