Why do we hate the Air2?

[scubadada]

Why do BCD mounted Octos like the Air2 get so much flak? is it just a DIR thing or are they considered "evil" for all divers?

Are you speaking for someone other than yourself?

 

[DevonDiver]

How did anyone that flips out in the water without an reg in there mouth ever get basic scuba certification?...The problem seems to lay more with unqualified people being certified then it does with equipment.

It's sad, but that is the true state for many 'qualified' divers. Basing my non-personal assessment on that lowest common denominator is why I feel that the AIRII adds unnecessary complexity (inducing stress during emergencies) for some divers.

Six pools dives and five open water were my basic scuba cert requirements - each time we practiced losing our reg (and finding it), mask, and what to do with an OOA etc etc. Then it was up to the instructor to evaluate how comfortable each
person was during these drills before certifying them.

Again, sadly... most divers don't get that sort of training on an entry-level open water course. They learn the skill (often repeated only once or twice) in confined water, then repeat it only one more time on a single open water dive. That's what the minimum standards state - so that's all that some instructors bother to do...

 

[Diver0001]

It's hard to really appreciate the reason why until you've actually used one in an air sharing experience.

Well... contrary to many of the arm-chair quarter-backs here I actually *have* used one in an air sharing scenario.

The advantage to it is that you can actually find the damned thing when you need it most....and that's not an insignificant thing. My first air sharing experience was very nearly a 5 alarm cluster-fk and very nearly cost me my life because my own octopus was floating behind my back when we *really* *really* needed it... in those days even having an octopus was still gaining popularity and having one that was clipped off where it needed to be was exceedingly rare.... at the time we sorted it out with buddy breathing, which was a standard part of the training at the time...... As you can see... we both remembered our training and we are both still here.....

That experience (which was in 1986) made me realize that no matter what... the octopus *really* needs to be where you thought it would be when you need it.....

The great thing about an Air2 is that you always know *exactly* where it is, which makes mitigating in inital emergency that much easier.....

The bad part is what happens after that.... it makes ascending cleanly a bit more of a challenge as compared to some of the options we now have and orally inflating the thing is just plain weird. In our case we made it to the surface but to call it "polished" .... no.... the word that best describes our ascent is... "fail". This is clearly something that needs practice and/or training.

After 27 years of diving I still think it's the 2nd best choice. My best advice would be to go for the long-hose and bungee backup (and to get some training on how to use it) but my least favorite option is still the traditional octopus.... The very fact that it can be (and too often is) anywhere except where you *need* it to be is a major complication that I think is completely unacceptable. An AAS must be exactly where you expect it to be, which makes the long-hose and fixed alternate the only logical configuration choice in my book.

R..

 

[mcguiver]

Are you speaking for someone other than yourself?

I have personally recieved flak for diving as a tek guy that uses an air 2. Its usually given in good humor but when I try and find out the basis for their distrust of the SS inflator I have yet to get a convincing answer. Many cite the general fealing amongst DIR people that it is not part of an acceptable equipment configuration so it must be unsafe. Though my equipment and diving style is so far off the beaten path as to render me unable to justify my gear choices for use by anyone. My recreational rig is a CCR with an onboard bailout that is plumbed to my Air2 ( tried the BOV rout, didnt like it) For me the air2 is a tidy meens of allowing myself access to my backgas if I need it. On deeper dives I necklace my bailout, so I do use both options but my perfured setup by far is the air2 with onboard bailout when I am staying in NDL above 100feet. I started diving in '92 and got into tec in '96 following the early development of DIR. The atitude of DIR divers at that time (at least in my area) left a bad taste in my mouth and for the last 15 years and 2000+ dives I have been tek diving using equipment cofigured in a way that makes sence to me. I understand and respect much of the DIR philosophy but the cult like behavior of many of the practitioners is what drove me away from the group. As it stands all my equipment is set up for self rescue as I never dive as part of a buddy team, So I have gone from part of the DIR crowd to about as far from DIR team diving as it is possible to get.

 

[TSandM]

That's an interesting configuration, mcguiver! I don't think I've ever heard of anyone doing that.

If you're a solo CCR diver, though, I think you should be able to configure your gear any way that works for you. I suspect you're not at all the inexperienced recreational diver that most of us have been envisioning while writing on this thread

 

[CriticalMass]

Why do BCD mounted Octos like the Air2 get so much flak? is it just a DIR thing or are they considered "evil" for all divers?

Well, I've resisted posting in this discussion a few days, and I see that mine will just get lost in pages and pages of opinionated posts. But too many of them don't seem too well reasoned. How many of you have actually USED an alternate air source?

Why do "we" hate the Air2? Who's "we"? It ain't me, that's for sure. I don't use an Air2, but I have been using a similar device on my SeaQuest Pro QD/i3 by Aqualung, and I like it.

C'mon, people, at least be objective about it. An alternate air source on the BC adds more air dumps - that's a good thing. Do you have to take it out of your mouth and hold it up to dump air? No - I can simply s-t-r-e-t-c-h mine, and air will vent from the device's BC shoulder valve, or I can press the dump button, and air goes out the reg exhaust ports. That's in addition to the dump options already on the BC. One of the advantages of an alternate air source is that you get away from having to hold the BC hose up over your head to dump. Why go through the gymnastics if you can avoid it?

With an alternate air source, you don't worry about dragging your octo across the bottom (I see that all the time in scuba images) - there's simply nothing to stow, plus you get more ways to vent your BC. What's not to like? The hose is a little stiff? Yeah, big deal. It's stiff because it's an *emergency device*, and doesn't get used that much. Use it more and the hose will loosen up - but you don't really want to use it more, right - that means more emergencies. In an air-share deal, you put your alternate air source 2nd stage in your mouth and breathe, and the other guy gets your primary reg. That's a tough deal to manage? I don't think so - this ain't rocket science.

At the end of the day, all the silliness about "why "we" hate the Air2", or any alternate air source, IMO, is just wasted bandwidth. It's not any different from all the rest of the plethora of diving gear on the market we get to choose from all the time. It gets down to what you find most useful. Don't like 'em? Then use something else - use whatever floats your boat. But what's with the "hate" business?

If/when the time comes to replace my Aqualung Alternate Air Source, a successor is now out that's even better, and I won't hesitate to buy it - in my mind, they offer so much more than just another 2nd stage on a hose, it's a no-brainer.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have personally recieved flak for diving as a tek guy that uses an air 2. Its usually given in good humor but when I try and find out the basis for their distrust of the SS inflator I have yet to get a convincing answer. Many cite the general fealing amongst DIR people that it is not part of an acceptable equipment configuration so it must be unsafe. Though my equipment and diving style is so far off the beaten path as to render me unable to justify my gear choices for use by anyone. My recreational rig is a CCR with an onboard bailout that is plumbed to my Air2 ( tried the BOV rout, didnt like it) For me the air2 is a tidy meens of allowing myself access to my backgas if I need it. On deeper dives I necklace my bailout, so I do use both options but my perfured setup by far is the air2 with onboard bailout when I am staying in NDL above 100feet. I started diving in '92 and got into tec in '96 following the early development of DIR. The atitude of DIR divers at that time (at least in my area) left a bad taste in my mouth and for the last 15 years and 2000+ dives I have been tek diving using equipment cofigured in a way that makes sence to me. I understand and respect much of the DIR philosophy but the cult like behavior of many of the practitioners is what drove me away from the group. As it stands all my equipment is set up for self rescue as I never dive as part of a buddy team, So I have gone from part of the DIR crowd to about as far from DIR team diving as it is possible to get.

Ah, now things make a lot more sense.

When I read the first post in this thread, my initial response was to think "ah ... another anti-DIR troll" ... with the same predictable ensuing conversation I've seen dozens of times over the past few years. Seemed like a lot of the comments that followed were something straight out of the bad old days of the '90's.

Apparently they were ... now that I understand that, it makes a lot more sense to me.

When I started diving in 2001, DIR had a bad odor in my community ... primarily because of a bunch of 20-something alpha males who took a Fundies class and subsequently felt the need to stand out at our local site and snicker at anybody with split fins or a snorkel. Thing is, those guys weren't really divers ... over the ensuing few years, most of them quit diving ... feeling like they'd reached the pinnacle of success at it ... and went off to find something else to be "the best" at.

What I wasn't seeing was that they were a tiny minority of the folks who were diving the DIR way ... because most of the DIR folks were just going on about the business of diving, and were either pretty quietly doing their own thing or were so inconspicuous that you never noticed who they were.

Over the next couple years I started noticing that a lot of the folks I dived with had taken at least one or two DIR classes ... and they weren't cultlike at all ... they were helpful and friendly, and pretty darn fun to hang out with. That completely blew away my preconceptions of what constitutes a "DIR" diver. One such was a young lady videographer who I dived with occasionally ... and who one time in early 2003 asked me if I'd go with her on a video shoot she was doing for a local TV station about shellfish farming. We were diving in some mussel beds when she disappeard in between these hanging strings of mussels, shooting her video camera ... and a few minutes later, here she comes ... fins first ... calmly backing out of all those hanging strands while continuing to shoot. Watching her back up, pretty as you please, my thought was "I want me some of that" ... meaning I wanted to learn how to back kick like she did. She offered to help me learn, but unfortunately, try as I might, my split fins didn't let me achieve it. So she suggested some blade fins and a Fundies class. Of course, I had to change a bunch of other gear for the class ... which I did ... and although I've since decided that DIR is a bit too restrictive for my taste, it was one of the best investments I ever made ... partly because of the improvement in my skills, and greatly because it gave me insights into the fact that the "DIR philosophy" wasn't anything like what I had imagined it to be.

Look ... I'm a NAUI instructor, an occasional solo diver, I recently took up sidemount ... and if I had the funds and a slightly more organized personality I'd probably be diving a rEVO by now ... so I'm hardly what you'd call a DIR type ... but I've never found the majority of the DIR folks I know to be even the slightest bit like the cliches I see tossed around on ScubaBoard regularly. Like any other group of divers, the majority are just people who have identified how they want to do things, and don't really much care how other people are doing it. The few who project "The Attitude" would do so whether they were diving, skiing, or riding bicycles for recreation.

Earlier today I was teaching a Rescue class at one of our local dive sites. Coming out of the water I ran into a friend of mine who's heavy into the DIR thing. She came over, gave me a big hug, and asked me how the class went. She and her buddy were heading out to practice bottle switches or some silly-ass thing like that. Hey, that's her idea of a good time ... she enjoys getting out and practicing her skills. I like taking pictures of fish. What gives us satisfaction in the water is different. But yanno what ... doesn't keep us from being friends.

These threads that focus on our differences can get pretty silly sometimes ... because people tend to look at the actions of one or two people and project them onto an entire group who made different choices than they did. Hey folks ... it's just a recreational activity. If we can't appreciate each other's diversity, it stops being fun. And I dunno about you, but fun is the reason I dive. And what I learned ... back around 2003 ... was that when I stopped being judgmental about others, they stopped being judmental of me ... and we all had more fun ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CriticalMass]

I understand and respect much of the DIR philosophy but the cult like behavior of many of the practitioners is what drove me away from the group. As it stands all my equipment is set up for self rescue as I never dive as part of a buddy team, So I have gone from part of the DIR crowd to about as far from DIR team diving as it is possible to get.

Right on.

Admittedly, I'm on the outside looking in, without enough scuba experience to have an informed opinion about much of anything, but what I've seen so far leads me to believe that the "DIR" business is akin to a "my way or the highway" mindset, and I want no part of that wherever I see it. It's not hard to spot people who you'd "like to buy them for what they're worth, and sell them for what they think they're worth".

 

[Cave Diver]

Well... contrary to many of the arm-chair quarter-backs here I actually *have* used one in an air sharing scenario.

The advantage to it is that you can actually find the damned thing when you need it most....and that's not an insignificant thing. My first air sharing experience was very nearly a 5 alarm cluster-fk and very nearly cost me my life because my own octopus was floating behind my back when we *really* *really* needed it...

I used one as well and was less than impressed with it. Some things just need to be experienced to truly appreciate though.

The bad part is what happens after that.... it makes ascending cleanly a bit more of a challenge as compared to some of the options we now have and orally inflating the thing is just plain weird.

Judging from your other recent comments on it, it wouldn't seem that that the challenge with ascents is the only bad part.

I haven't used an Air II since shortly after humans discovered how to make fire but from what I can remember of the one I had, the cracking pressure was so high that breathing from it was like trying to jump-start a car by sucking on the muffler.... and when it DID open it breathed positive.... It was most peculiar to use it.

Are they still that bad? If so I would add "performance sucks" to the list of cons.

 

[mcguiver]

........
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I have witnessed a lot less of that kind of atitude from DIR types it on the last several years. But ocationally I still see people (20 something alpha males usually) openly mocking non tec types for their gear choices. I get more good natured ribbing for my non standard gear configuration but it comes from DIR people who know me. However I cringe when those same people deride other divers at the beach, commenting on their equipment hanging from retractors or their trim in the water. My question about the Air2 was based on the comments I have recieved and it could just as easily apply to any piece of equipment. Many of them were brought up on this thread,. Pony bottles, Air intigrated computers, vest BCD's, are all used succesfully by many happy divers but the mere mention of them gets people screaming at each other. I have been in this sport long enough to see a great many people come and go and the ones who drop out of it are the ones who forgot what they got into it for, to have fun. After nearly 20 years of diving the people who I still see at the beach all the time are the ones who still see the beauty in a hermit crab pearched on a rock not the ones who can hold perfect trim in a silted out lake and do OOA drills to prefection.