Also, I check often when I scrub roll-off post. I didn't check as often before I started breathing that post.
Why DIR doesn't work for me...
- Thread starter Uncle Pug
- Start date
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That's not the hard question, the hard question is how you would determine that the situation exists in the first place.
That's why the long hose is on the right post. If you're donating both you and the OOA diver do not have to worry about the OOA diver having a roll off. If you DO roll off the left post (your reg) you know about it immediately and you can fix it because it's under your control. Theres immediate feedback.
Otherwise, donating from the left post you may find that the OOA diver that you thought was struggling though a tight spot and is now stuck because s/he's not moving has in fact drowned.
And may be blocking your exit on top of things.
Roak
What does your pressure guage indicate in a roll-off when breathing from the opposite post?
Some people don't spend enough time in the water to notice a 300 PSI drop. You have a roll-off 200 PSI before 1/3's. You fail to
notice. OOA scenario due to manifold failure.
In that instance, your buddy, who is out of air, takes your long hose. Since you were at your furthest penetration, close to 1/3's, when you go to your short hose and realize you are rolled-off, crack the valve, and your pressure guage drops 300 PSI or more. You now have less than 2/3's gas supply and 2 divers breathing the same gas supply. Long hose begins to free-flow, slowly leaking your gas supply and your buddies. You can't isolate due to the lack of ability to buddy breath in tight quarters. If you don't you know neither of you can make it out.
What do you do?
I know it sounds far fetched, but preparing means running all scenarios.
1. Solo with a stage bottle, you switch to stage. Scenario impossible
2. Sidemount, you have at least 4 unique bottles in a buddy team that would have to fail, no manifold. Scenario impossible
Cheers
sorry to get your thread off track Uncle Pug
Some people don't spend enough time in the water to notice a 300 PSI drop. You have a roll-off 200 PSI before 1/3's. You fail to
notice. OOA scenario due to manifold failure.
In that instance, your buddy, who is out of air, takes your long hose. Since you were at your furthest penetration, close to 1/3's, when you go to your short hose and realize you are rolled-off, crack the valve, and your pressure guage drops 300 PSI or more. You now have less than 2/3's gas supply and 2 divers breathing the same gas supply. Long hose begins to free-flow, slowly leaking your gas supply and your buddies. You can't isolate due to the lack of ability to buddy breath in tight quarters. If you don't you know neither of you can make it out.
What do you do?
I know it sounds far fetched, but preparing means running all scenarios.
1. Solo with a stage bottle, you switch to stage. Scenario impossible
2. Sidemount, you have at least 4 unique bottles in a buddy team that would have to fail, no manifold. Scenario impossible
Cheers
sorry to get your thread off track Uncle Pug
Everyone, at some point, has to make the decision whether or not they will solo dive. To me, no amount of gas or extra bottles or caution or training can replace another set of eyes, another brain and another perspective. The notion that, through some convoluted logic and set of circumstances, one can justify the decision to dive solo, especially in a cave, doesn't wash. If you are going to dive solo, it's your choice. No one can stop you.
If you don't "spend enough time in the water" to know your pressure before you look then you don't have any business in a major restriction in a cave somewhere and you certainly have no business buddy-bottling it on your own.
Sidemounting has a place, and George has even outlined how they do it, but breathing independents is a whole new set of tasks and things to think about. Why do it if the cave doesn't call for it?
BTW, Pug and roakey both gave much better and clearer answers to the "which post" question than did I. They clearly get it.
JoeL
OP
Way too far fetched...
"Some people" (whoever they are) that don't spend enough time in the water to notice that the SPG hasn't changed... shouldn't be in that hypothetical position you describe....
"Some people" (whoever they are) that don't work as a team with each one monitoring turn pressure... shouldn't be in that hypothetical position you describe....
"Some people" (whoever they are) that don't check their left post regularly... especially after a brush with the ceiling..... shouldn't be in that hypothetical position you describe....
Your post switched from "some people" to "you"....
Back the hypothetical wagon back up....
Deal with the scenario before the scenario:
be aware of your situation...
work as a team...
check your post...
Divesherpa,
That's five, count 'em five failures. Timed at the worst point in the dive.
Anyone that would seriously consider such a failure scenario reminds me of a saying Ive always gotten a chuckle out of:
The lottery is a tax on people that cant do math.
Gentle readers, youre intelligent enough to draw your own conclusions as to which is more probable:
Put the long hose on the right post in case you have a roll off when donating to an OOA diver.
Or,
Put the long hose on left post in case you have a roll off, your brain fails, the manifold fails, the isolator fails and a hose fails. At *exactly* your point of greatest penetration.
Oh wait, you forgot to mention the 'gator at the spring entrance that forces you to wait for 15 minutes before it lets you surface. And the bad guys with knives from a James Bond movie.
Maybe youre simply joking and I didnt get it. I can think of no other rational explanation for such an outlandish scenario.
Me, Id worry more about being hit by a well drilling bit before Id worry about what you describe.
Im done with this particular point. Ill trust rational minds to prevail.
Roak
That's five, count 'em five failures. Timed at the worst point in the dive.
Anyone that would seriously consider such a failure scenario reminds me of a saying Ive always gotten a chuckle out of:
The lottery is a tax on people that cant do math.
Gentle readers, youre intelligent enough to draw your own conclusions as to which is more probable:
Put the long hose on the right post in case you have a roll off when donating to an OOA diver.
Or,
Put the long hose on left post in case you have a roll off, your brain fails, the manifold fails, the isolator fails and a hose fails. At *exactly* your point of greatest penetration.
Oh wait, you forgot to mention the 'gator at the spring entrance that forces you to wait for 15 minutes before it lets you surface. And the bad guys with knives from a James Bond movie.
Maybe youre simply joking and I didnt get it. I can think of no other rational explanation for such an outlandish scenario.
Me, Id worry more about being hit by a well drilling bit before Id worry about what you describe.
Im done with this particular point. Ill trust rational minds to prevail.
Roak
watch out DIS is "Do It Simple" I haven't checked it out yet but they have a web site www.dis-uk.org and there is an article on it in this month's Diver (UK) mag - don't know if it has made it to the web site yet (www.divernet.com).
Why it does not work for me though I think would be the "harness threaded from a single piece of webbing; no shoulder adjusters" because:
a) I like my harness tight and don't think I would be flexible enough to get in
b) don't think I could reach the valves whether independant or manifilded without loosening the harness.
I'm in the the process of doing IANTD Advanced Nitrox and know that I have to loosen the harness and I still struggle and boy did my shoulders ache the next day.
Also even if I did want to take it up I know some of my good buddies would not because of the layout on equipment rather than anything else and I would like to still dive with them.
I am sure there is more but hey, it's time to go to the pub (probably discounts me as well though......)
Jonathan
Why it does not work for me though I think would be the "harness threaded from a single piece of webbing; no shoulder adjusters" because:
a) I like my harness tight and don't think I would be flexible enough to get in
b) don't think I could reach the valves whether independant or manifilded without loosening the harness.
I'm in the the process of doing IANTD Advanced Nitrox and know that I have to loosen the harness and I still struggle and boy did my shoulders ache the next day.
Also even if I did want to take it up I know some of my good buddies would not because of the layout on equipment rather than anything else and I would like to still dive with them.
I am sure there is more but hey, it's time to go to the pub (probably discounts me as well though......)
Jonathan
OP
Easy Roak... you might bust a clot loose...
BTW... how do you deal with a drill bit?
OP
Hi Jonathan,
I know you haven't tried it yet so it is understandable that you might think it wouldn't work...
a) I have my harness tight with great stability carrying double 104s...
And I wouldn't dare trust any quick release on a shoulder to hold the weight...
But I can get in and out very easily whether on the boat or in the water...
The key is the crotch strap... once it is undone (very easy) the shoulder straps loosen and are easy to remove....
b) I can reach all my valves with ease without loosening anything... without struggling and without changing postition in the water...
c) I know you didn't have a *c)* but let me point out that it is not the fault of GUE/DIR training that you are having trouble with the harness in your IANTD class
All that said I will say that I had to *learn* how to do the above...
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