why did GUE , DIR take so long to adopt sidemount.
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You should really refrain from posting... You're not fooling anyone....
AJ
Contributor
Maybe you should take a GUE class and get familiar with GUE instructors? I must admit I looked at GUE differently before I took my Fundamentals training and got to know these guys. Yes, they seem to have an attitude, but there is a reason for it. Get to know them before judging them, you might be surprised.
beester
Contributor
Well I'm not neutral (having taken a couple of GUE courses since 2009), next to courses from other technical agencies, but let me tell you that you are just plain wrong. I've taken so far 5 GUE courses, and I've taken every course with a different instructor (Fundies Derk Remmers, DPV1, Peter Brandt, Tech 1 Mario Arena, Cave 1 JP Bresser, Cave 2 Chris Le Maillot), this next to all the instructors I know... means I think I have a good idea of their mentality.
There are no elite (leed!) ways of diving! Backmount and sidemount, mccr or eccr, standard gasses or best mix (to name just a couple of the GUE related discussions) are just options... choises. One is not better than the other, the way how you implement them can be better.
And that comes down to training. I know some excellent non GUE trainers (TDI and IANTD), but I also know some bad ones. Well all GUE instructors, and especially the ones teaching technical courses (T-C) are excellent instructors. You might not rub the same way with one or the other (personalities can clash) but they are all on top of their game.
And that is what attracts me to GUE. Because of the high level of training given by these guys,you learn a hollistic team approach, which enables average divers like me to make dives which are normally only done by advanced divers. It enables average joes like me to extend their personal limits step by step.
If you think these instructors need to play games like this or a small florida based organisation needs to set an agency policy just to keep attracting students then you are wrong.
I'm currently setting up a T2 course for myself, these courses are not given regularly in my neck of the woods, but it's us who need to adjust to the instructor because he just doesn't have the time... he's fully booked for 2016 already. Ask the Zero gravity guys (cave instructors in Mexico) if they need to attract students, they'll tell you they need to turn them away.
There are no elite (leed!) ways of diving! Backmount and sidemount, mccr or eccr, standard gasses or best mix (to name just a couple of the GUE related discussions) are just options... choises. One is not better than the other, the way how you implement them can be better.
And that comes down to training. I know some excellent non GUE trainers (TDI and IANTD), but I also know some bad ones. Well all GUE instructors, and especially the ones teaching technical courses (T-C) are excellent instructors. You might not rub the same way with one or the other (personalities can clash) but they are all on top of their game.
And that is what attracts me to GUE. Because of the high level of training given by these guys,you learn a hollistic team approach, which enables average divers like me to make dives which are normally only done by advanced divers. It enables average joes like me to extend their personal limits step by step.
If you think these instructors need to play games like this or a small florida based organisation needs to set an agency policy just to keep attracting students then you are wrong.
I'm currently setting up a T2 course for myself, these courses are not given regularly in my neck of the woods, but it's us who need to adjust to the instructor because he just doesn't have the time... he's fully booked for 2016 already. Ask the Zero gravity guys (cave instructors in Mexico) if they need to attract students, they'll tell you they need to turn them away.
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bamafan
Contributor
It is my understanding you feel that cave training is a waste too that anyone can just read a little bit and watch a few YouTube videos and you are good to go.
I know some former or current GUE Instructors and they do not train people in sidemount configuration or belong(ed) to another agency while they do (TDI, Protec, IAC, Padi or something).
Neither am I.
I do not remember mentioning that myself.
I personally think sidemount diving is a 'better way', though.
In the same way freediving is an even better way to be 'one with the elements'.
Sidemount approaches the freedom of freediving, while not giving up much backmount can offer.
Most agencys, not GUE only, would have to have a separate sidemount chapter.
Most cannot easily integrate it into normal training, without it predictably replacing backmount completely in the long run.
I do not judge. Goes against the way my mind works.
I am just saying there are a lot of plausible reasons for GUE as an organisation to refrain from adopting sidemount early.
Now they are late it has become very hard for them to be leaders in the game.
Since they are very important in backmount diving, they are less motivated than others to try or improve sidemount diving.
I also agree with the original post that the manifold question is featured prominently in many discussions regarding this topic and to me it seems to be unsolveable.
Dhboner
Contributor
Well let me chime in...I dive with predominately GUE divers and have for many years now. My oldest son is a GUE trained diver. When I made the transition to backmounted doubles I had trouble with valve drills largely due to years of flying off the front of my mountain bike. It was GUE divers that suggested that I look into sidemount because I was just not safe in backmount if I couldn't easily reach my valves. GUE believes in the right tool for the job and for the moment they believe the right tool in most cases is back mounted doubles. We are all still good friends and I dive with them regularly but they will not dive with me beyond a certain depth because my sidemount configuration is inconsistent with their team dynamics and I respect that. I believe that GUE will eventually embrace sidemount for open water diving but for now let's not portray them as draconian and elitist. They have a philosophy that was carefully developed and they are methodical when faced with any suggested changes.
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