why did GUE , DIR take so long to adopt sidemount.

[DevonDiver]

No single set configuration in sm will be perfect for every dive. This is the beauty of the configuration.
Instead of preaching ONE WAY! why not teach all possibilities to exploit all advantages? .

Its a GUE/DIR based question; so specifically for this thread, the globally standardised agency approach is a necessary consideration.

Levels of prescribed standardisation vary with different agencies. GUE has probably the most regimented standardisation.

 

[KevinNM]

I can see where true sidemount diving doesn't square with the basis of the GUE curriculum of team diving. I am guessing this may be one of the main reasons GUE hasn't come out with an official sidemount program. I know Panos has been diving sidemount a lot.

According to Panos in Quest 16-3, the reason is that there is currently no clearly optimal set of equipment for sidemount or configuration of that equipment for the various situations where sidemount is needed.

 

[rjack321]

I understand Kelly's point, but it speaks more to a lack of proper attitude about risk mitigation than it does the choice of side-mount vs back-mount. Living where he does, I'm certain he sees way more back-mounted divers doing stupid things in caves than he does side-mounters ... particularly those who chronically enter caves with no overhead training at all (often on single, back-mounted cylinders) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Sidemount just allows stupid to get further in and poses increased risks trying to get the body out. I'm sure rigor is bad enough in a large passage (even with the doubles cut away), in a small passage its a nightmare on top of a nightmare. Witness the (theoretical) Vortex death. I don't believe he's actually dead in there, but Edd had to go to the end of the earth at considerable risk to himself to prove it. And he still didn't prove it to the missing guy's family.

 

[Coztick]

No single set configuration in sm will be perfect for every dive. This is the beauty of the configuration.
Instead of preaching ONE WAY! why not teach all possibilities to exploit all advantages? .

the reason is that there is currently no clearly optimal set of equipment for sidemount or configuration of that equipment for the various situations where sidemount is needed.

My point was that to accept the configuration is to accept that it may have to change to suit
the environment. An environment that is prohibitive to the team philosophy. So call it
what it is, a solo passage best passed using sidemount. In your world that's all it's
good for and the only times it should be used. Your party, your rules.
But by definition you guys are Global Underwater Explorers, so sidemount/nomount
dives will be done. Just sayin' you could design the course around that assumption.
Only for those who are qualified to be there in the first place. Not me. Ever!

 

[AJ]

My point was that to accept the configuration is to accept that it may have to change to suit
the environment. An environment that is prohibitive to the team philosophy.

Standardized gear en team diving are the fundamentals of GUE. That does not mean however a GUE trained diver cannot dive SM. It just means GUE has not found a way yet to integrate SM in their philosophy. Only time will tell if SM wil be adopted by GUE.

 

[Razorista]

Isn't gearbow right in that the most obvious problem with GUE is that they took some effort to get independent doubles out of the equation, making manifolds mandatory?
Also:
Carrying stages in a certain way that is not ideal in sidemount configs.
Routing tank light cables in one certain way without allowing any deviation.
...

Sidemount forces them to challenge a lot of carefully developed rules and behaviors and any form of gradual and slow integration must seem impossible to a non-sidemounter.
They have to develop their own rulebooks while not accepting it for 'real' diving, hard to establish standards that way.
They already 'own' the standards for backmount diving, however.
It is much easier to just hope it disappears again after a while, did not happen, but who could honestly have expected that? ;-)

 

[AJ]

It is much easier to just hope it disappears again after a while, did not happen, but who could honestly have expected that? ;-)

Or they might it be they think: SM is not what we can support in our philosophy, so we won't do that. But that does not mean we want it to go way.

I don't believe GUE wants to rule the diveworld. They are strict in their philosophy because it allowes them to form teams with similar skills and procedures quickly and easy. Afaik GUE tolerates other 'religions' without hesitation, just not in their projects.

 

[beester]

Just to throw another log on the fire. I know a GUE C2-T1 diver from my local GUE community who recently did her C2 in Mexico with the Zerogravity crowd. She told me that she discussed doing C2 in sidemount, and they did go deeper into the logistics of it. Discussing her experience with sidemount, how to do the course, etc. In the end she decided against it, we were chatting about it on facebook and I told her... you missed a chance to create a precedent ;-)

I'm not a sidemount diver,. Wrecks are never a problem, but there are some caves which are on my list for which sidemount would be a good solution (Marchepieds for example). So I'm interested to know how GUE would go about it. Just like the eCCR project, establishment of courses is very interesting to follow.

B

 

[Razorista]

You misunderstand what I tried to say, AJ:
GUE does not want to rule the dive world probably, but in fact it does.
That also means GUE Instructors have to be 'different', otherwise nobody would need them.
Money is always a factor in any decission and being a GUE instructor means being a highly paid instructor, being a GUE divers means you paid those fees.

Sidemount was seen as something outside standards, used only for extreme restrictions in cave diving.
Easy to tolerate it that way, even still feel superior as a GUE-team.
But it did not stay inside the designated box, as other non-standard configurations did before it.
Somehow it is useful almost anywhere, and sidemount divers are starting to get annoying with their success stories in places they were not expected.

There is now a situation where they could really loose market share in the forseeable future, because sidemount is starting to replace a lot of technical diving concepts.
But by now they have the problem that most experienced sidemount divers are non-GUE, so most users do not even stick to procedures where they could have.
Sidemount has turned strictly non-GUE by now and will probably never get closer to 'the old ways' again - Time to change for GUE ;-)

 

[beester]

You misunderstand what I tried to say, AJ:
GUE does not want to rule the dive world probably, but in fact it does.
That also means GUE Instructors have to be 'different', otherwise nobody would need them.
Money is always a factor in any decission.

Sidemount was seen as something outside standards, used only for extreme restrictions in cave diving.
Easy to tolerate it that way, even still feel superior as a GUE-team.

Can I have some of your funny juice please? Have you ever taken any GUE courses or do you even know any GUE instructors to cover stating such obviously blatant b*llshit?