Whose fault is it when an accident happens?

[TheRedHead]

Hey, not "showing off". When riding the current on a wall vertical crosslegged is a practical position.

Hmmm. I've never seen anyone do that in Coz. Being in the proper horizontal position makes it a lot easier to stop.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Gas planning 101...

It's all over this board but it's probably worth going into again.

Let's look at 3 different types of dives and three basic gas plans. I'll give you the dive types and you give me the gas plans.

For the following assume both divers are starting with equal gas supplies. Just state turn pressure/volume as a fraction of starting pressure/volume. Give ascent gas requirements in volume.

1, You and your buddy can surface anyplace you need to at any time during the dive. describe how you determine ascent pressure. Use whatever max depth you like but state it in your solution.

2, You and your buddy are doing a dive where you would PREFER to get back to the entry point underwater but it isn't absolutely necessary. Describe how you determine turn pressure and ascent pressure.

3, You and your buddy are planning a dive where it is an absolute requirement that you get back to the entry point underwater. How do you determine turn pressure?

For the above solutions, you don't need to know anybodies SAC or RMV to calculate turn pressure/volume. For "ascent" pressure/volume, you need a sac that is greater than or equal to the highest rate of gas consumption that could be expected.

 

[Thalassamania]

... where individuals who probably do not have enough experience to be considered 'experts' serve as very effective teachers of technique. If you are a newly minted OWSI, with 100 dives under your weight belt, are you necessarily an expert diver?

No.

Can an expert diver be a bad instructor?

Yes.

Can a certified instructor be a bad diver?

We all know that it happens even though it shouldn't.

But getting back to the main point. Fault (blame, culpability, whatever) is almost always a shared commodity. There are those who want to place it all on the diver because the warning was there (albeit hidden in the fine print) and there are those that want to place it all on the agency (well ... they said diving was safe, how can it be safe if you can get hurt?), and some want to place it on the team member who didn't check the SPG or computer, and some want to place it on the instructor because he or she did not fulfill his or her duty. It's always a combination, there's no one answer after the fact (I hate to say it but that's what courts are for). But before the fact, in terms of prevention, there is one answer that goes farther than all the others and that's individual divers taking individual responsibility for their own safety.

Back when we were writing the AAUS Model Safe Practices Manual there was a conflict between those who wanted rules that spelled out every detail of practice and those who wanted general guidelines. I was (and am) part of the latter camp. I have never seen a diver who was made "safer" by the existence of a written rule. Properly trained divers don't minimize their risk through external rules, they master information and technique and subscribe to the concept of individual and team responsibility, which should be inculcated from the start.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey, not "showing off". When riding the current on a wall vertical crosslegged is a practical position.

Being horizontal provides the greatest control. But...circumstances permitting, I don't see anything wrong with clowing around a bit just to have fun...vertical, upside down or doing loops. Personally I like to dive horizontal but on my back facing the surface in local quarries when I'm looking for paddlefish.

The problem comes in when divers are unable to control their position and just don't have a choice. Unfortunately, the training standards of some agencies do NOT teach or require that ability. Some people might find it fun to hover upside down but if that is the only way you can maintain a hover, you are in a bad way...The same is true for the lotus thing...it just isn't very handy for use when dealing with a problem when depth control is critical...even though that does meet the requirements of some agencies.

 

[Seuss]

> Some people might find it fun to hover upside down

Just remember, when you are upside down, any "crud" in your cylinder has the opportunity to obstruct (or contaminate) airflow.

 

[MikeFerrara]

> Some people might find it fun to hover upside down

Just remember, when you are upside down, any "crud" in your cylinder has the opportunity to obstruct (or contaminate) airflow.

Why should there be "crud" in my tank? If there were, why should it make it into my reg?

If there were "crud" in my tank, I would be more likely to worry about it when I'm shooting in O2 then when I'm diving.


No...not a real concern.

 

[stevewirl]

this is why we get our cylinders tested and cleaned at regular intervals . any "crud" that is in a tank will also show signs from smell or tastes .

bad state of affairs to be in if your tanks are like that

 

[stevewirl]

please remind me not to ask for a laon of seuss set

 

[TSandM]

Mike, there have been anecdotal reports of people using rental Aluminum tanks who have had complete loss of gas supply as a result of going head down and having the dip tube obstructed with aluminum oxide debris. I think that's what Seuss is talking about.

 

[Cacia]

bad state of affairs to be in if your tanks are like that

yes, divers diving rental tanks or even buying second hand ones with a current VIP should be aware of that...

I like to invert shallow initially, myself. I am not sure if that is good, but it makes me feel more confident before heading 100 + with a rental. My first fifty feet is almost always some sort of systems check, just by routine. Recently, I learned to add taste "feel throat" sensations to that.

A lot of divers here post as though they live in a perfect world..I find myself wondering how they cope on trips. We go places where you cannot assume anything and I try to confirm a lot of basic things and have an ongoing mental checklist regarding things some might take for granted. Even down to conversing with the captain before I let him leave me in open ocean. I often see divers doing very in depth buddy checks and such on the boat and they never even talk to the captain, as though he is a bell hop or something, it really amazes me and makes me think they have very little practical survival skill.

Divers need to develop a street smarts beyond the check lists given in a course.

Always ask yourself "what could most likely kill me today?" ...because the answer is almost never first stage failure, or whatever you rule out with bubble checks and the like. Big picture, do not lose the big picture. Always vet the ocean conditions, the captain, and the boat.