Whose fault is it when an accident happens?

[Wayfarer2]

My take on everything in life and responsibility in particular is that unless someone sets out with malicious intent what ever happens is what happens good or bad and no one else is to blame. In life things just happen, good and bad. There is only one sure fire way to never have a diving accident, don’t dive. That’s not an option for me!

 

[do it easy]

What is hovering in "lotus"?

It's vertical with the legs crossed- kinda like the position that some people meditate in. If you wanna get really fancy, you can put your hands at your knees with your fingertips barely touching ooommmmmmm ooooommmmmmmmm oooooooommmmmmmmmmm

 

[sunserious1984]

I generally think it is the individual diver's responsibility to ensure their own safety.

If someone gets into a car accident, do they blame their driving instructor?

I agree with you buddy it is the responsibility of diver to ensure their own safety.It is not the fault of instructor.One can become more experienced in the field of diving by practicing only.

 

[RiverRat]

In fifteen years of teaching I have virtually never had DM's along, they get in the way, they divide the students attention and this leads to less control over the group

.

Sounds like you're an "in control instructor" then. Kudos. I've helped on many occasion where I feel a DM was definitely an asset. Especially with the larger groups where more chaos seems to occur. But I also understand what you're saying. The key word is "control over the group". Many instructors don't seem to grasp that.

 

[stevewirl]

tanx axl72

im an instructor with CMAS and in Ireland its run that a diver is elegible for testing after 36 dives . only if their ready . 1 of my students has approx 80 - 100 dives complete and is still not ready for testing . just like PADI after their test they can dive to a preset depth with others of their own standard .

but as ive said time and time again What would any diver know about their own gear after 5 or 6 dives never mind their buddys . im a rescue instructor and no matter how many exams and courses a diver has ,,,,,,,,,

its all about the experience . time and hours in and on the water .

 

[stevewirl]

sorry guys:no

in the years im diving ive seen situations go to **** in less than 5 seconds . only last week i had a free flow at about 50 meters . i had back up gas and everything was ok .and dealt with calmly

but if i had been on a dive with students and somthing like that had happened . how could i or any instructor have been in "control" if i could bearlly look after myself .this is why i always have 1 Assistant Instructor For every 2 student on courses.

Safty first and last and everything inbetween

i always fallow the 6 P's that i learnt from the Army Search and Rescue here in Ireland .

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Proformance

 

[Abbo]

First, allow me to clear up the details of the specific situation that brought up the conversation. I may be not exact on their profile but it was something like 129ft -39SI - 111ft - 2hourSI- 93ft - 25SI - 86ft.

Though the title of the thread was pretty general - whose fault is it when an accident happens - the thread is asking about a specific incident. Sure, I'm a strong believer in every diver taking responsibility for his actions. However, the case in question involves a very aggressive profile, and plural divers got bent, according to the text. There was an instructor in charge. He must have been aware that the profile would involve decompression diving, and that the students were not trained or equipped for such a series of dives. He neither made his charges aware of the risks they were taking nor did he seek to prevent them executing this plan. His actions were unacceptable.

 

[RonFrank]

I cannot agree that "most" agencies fall into this category. That is a myth. One or two at the most would.

The other two or three major agencies world wide are fairly thorough in their training, and take up to 2 weekends (4 days) of open water diving to train their students.

I'd be interested to hear about other agencies.

I looked at NAUI, SSI, and PADI when I was looking at getting OW certified. All of them follow about the same amount of training time, and certify divers with four OW dives. I can not imagine that these agencies would make huge changes to the standards based on what country one lives in. Maybe LDS's in other countries spread out the diving and training?

But the question was what are the requirements to take an AOW class. I responded with

From most agencies/LDS standpoint...

1) OW cert
2) $$$

You disagree with this?

 

[daniel f aleman]

Come on Ron, you know that it is the instructor not the agency or the LDS. You can find NAUI instructors that go way beyond the minimum... I worked as a DM for a NAUI Scuba Diver course last month. We did eight dives - five and six concerned buoyancy and gas planning respectively, and seven and eight were on rescue techniques and search and recovery respectively.

Of course I live and work in an area with a lot of instructors to choose from...

 

[Ayisha]

It's vertical with the legs crossed- kinda like the position that some people meditate in. If you wanna get really fancy, you can put your hands at your knees with your fingertips barely touching ooommmmmmm ooooommmmmmmmm oooooooommmmmmmmmmm

I didn't know that people really did that outside of o/w class - or showing off the "armchair hover". I'm more familiar with the front down horizontal hover. Thanks for the info.