Whose fault is it when an accident happens?

[ArcticDiver]

I didn't know that people really did that outside of o/w class - or showing off the "armchair hover". I'm more familiar with the front down horizontal hover. Thanks for the info.

The position worked well on live boat dives at Coz. Almost like riding a helicopter over the bottom.

'course each to their own.

 

[stevewirl]

hey hey lads


whats wrong with showing off alittle . we do it every day with big cars flash suits . jewelery and the like .

so why cant we show off or even enjoy what we all love to do the way we want .

Show the love guys . show the love :10:

 

[AXL72]

yeah!

what stevewirl just said.


here, all you armchair showoff haters....take this===>

ok....back on topic. Have we taken a vote on this thread's question, yet?

 

[stevewirl]

i do alot of serious diving .

But love the thought of shallow dives that i can really enjoy as i Know the Stress and the seriousness has been taken out of the equation .

i really love to dive and mess around on the shallow dives this is how we find our own limits and even more can find out our capabilites .

 

[ArcticDiver]

Hey, not "showing off". When riding the current on a wall vertical crosslegged is a practical position.

 

[stevewirl]

i do agree . just like in our arm chair at home watchin tv

 

[Tigerman]

Hey Bob,

I'm not suggesting that the instructor did a great job. However based on what we know (profile, depth, time, student abilities) as you said, we don't know what we don't know! (Is that the NEW BLACK OR something? )

Ultimately it was not the instructor lying dead on the surface. I'll stick to my suggestion that we as certified divers need to be responsible for our diving regardless of what training we are involved in.

And you can DARN well BET that I had a good idea of my crummy SAC rate, and felt comfortable with my deep water dive plan when I did AOW with the HUGE experience level of I think 6 dives!

Gas management, and SAC rates are covered in PADI OW. Maybe not as well as some would like, but they are there, and our OW instructor did go over them as part of the dive planning. It was one of the things he really took some time to discuss in our OW classroom.

SAC and gas management IS covered in PADI OW, problem is that you need to have a reasonable selection of dives before you can have a realistic picture of what your SAC will be in different conditions.
Lets just say that in 4 drift dives (which I had never done untill last week) my SAC dropped 15% from the first 2 to the last 2.. My SAC on a different type of dive, maybe with different gear, will NOT be the same as it where on the last of those 4 drift dives im sure..

 

[Colliam7]

After you go through an ITC/IDC you may then have more data and experience on which to base your opinion.

Interesting point, and a fair comment. I have only completed Part 1 of IDC - the AI portion. Maybe, Part 2 will reveal a different aspect of IDC. Notably, it is my AI experience, including direct statements of my instructor, that helped form my opinion to begin with. We performed again (demonstration quality) the 20 skills. We performed again, the tried and true Rescue Scenario 7. We did Knoweldge Development presentations, Confined Water teaching presentations, Open Water teaching presentations. The IDC focuses on instructional technique - a good thing by the way. I did not make my comments in a negative fashion (I believe I am a better diver because of the AI experience, for example). Rather, it is merely a statement of the situation, in diving and a number of other pursuits (I mentioned aviation, there are many others, including public school instruction) where individuals who probably do not have enough experience to be considered 'experts' serve as very effective teachers of technique. If you are a newly minted OWSI, with 100 dives under your weight belt, are you necessarily an expert diver? Can an expert diver be a bad instructor? Can a certified instructor be a bad diver?

 

[Arizona]

oops!

 

[MikeFerrara]

SAC and gas management IS covered in PADI OW,

No it isn't.

problem is that you need to have a reasonable selection of dives before you can have a realistic picture of what your SAC will be in different conditions.
Lets just say that in 4 drift dives (which I had never done untill last week) my SAC dropped 15% from the first 2 to the last 2.. My SAC on a different type of dive, maybe with different gear, will NOT be the same as it where on the last of those 4 drift dives im sure..

You don't need to know your "SAC" in order to formulate a reasonable dive plan. We can get about 98% percent of the way through a complete discussion on gas management without worrying much about "SAC". What you need to know is when it's time to turn around or ascend based on volume. A high SAC and you turn/ascend sooner but we need not be too concerned with the time component of "SAC" unless we have specific time or distance goals we are planning for.

"SAC" does come into play in calculating the gas need for ascent because an ascent is somewhat time dependant. However, the "SAC" we are interested in here is NOT our normal diving "SAC" but what our "SAC" might be while dealing with a problem. Something of an acception to that statement would be planning gas requirements for staged decompression but that's probably beyond the scope of this discussion. Using a "SAC" or more correctly an RMV of 1 cu ft/ min will give most divers plenty of room though I have come across a few who would need to plan on more.

What is really required is an understanding of the primary goals of gasmanagement and how the basic types of gas plans relate to some basic dive requirements. This is the information that is NOT in the PADI OW text, AOW text, deep diving specialty text, rescue text, DM text or instructor training materials.