Whose fault is it when an accident happens?

[TheRedHead]

I find myself wondering how they cope on trips. We go places where you cannot assume anything and I confirm a lot of basic things some might take for granted.

You do research, talk to other divers, dive with a responsible buddy or sling a pony. Dive defensively.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, there have been anecdotal reports of people using rental Aluminum tanks who have had complete loss of gas supply as a result of going head down and having the dip tube obstructed with aluminum oxide debris. I think that's what Seuss is talking about.

I guessed that much.

I suppose such a thing could happen but do you have any idea of the level of neglect that would be required? Should someone try to kill me in such a manor, I promis I will vigorously defend myself, LOL.

Really, if that's a valid concern, you really need to eliminate the possibility before trying to dive with the junk.

 

[Cacia]

You do research, talk to other divers, dive with a responsible buddy or sling a pony. Dive defensively.

yea well, diving crap tanks happens.

One reason I don't "sling a pony" is that resort managers hone in on you like hawks, marching in with those things.

It is a big red flag that says "HOWDY, I HAVE BIG SOLO PLANS" I have better luck working those logistics out on the boat, once the crew sees I am... prudent.

 

[TheRedHead]

yea well, diving crap tanks happens.

Of course, that's why you have a trusted buddy or a pony. I must say that I have been lucky in choosing very good operators. I've never seen such a thing happen anywhere I have dived.

I've been able to rent ponies in Cozumel and I haven't had a problem.

 

[Cacia]

Coz is

unique.

I know it can get tough there, but the three times I was there it was a bathtub.

The South Pacific is another world

We dived some fairly advanced dives in Micronesia when JB had about 15 dives...I would not call him a trusted buddy at that point. But its not like we were going to buddy with somebody else, realistically. Look, you know what it comes down to? Some people just don't worry about dying AS MUCH. And...where is the morality in taking two people who *think like that* and inflicting them on two other buddies? ..makes no sense.

So, I revise my post to say "if you don't know the operator and you don't have a reliable buddy or a pony, you owe it to yourself to be hypervigilant in other areas." For me that means inverting the tank before it matters.

I think of risk as a currency. If you are short in one area, make it up somewhere else. (as opposed to trying to get it as low as humanly possible, that would eliminate too many dives)

 

[MikeFerrara]

yea well, diving crap tanks happens.

One reason I don't "sling a pony" is that resort managers hone in on you like hawks, marching in with those things.

It is a big red flag that says "HI, I PLAN TO SOLO"

I have NEVER used or even seen a tank so loaded with crud that it wouldn't work upside down.

If this is really going on then things are about a thousand times worse than what I've been thinking they are. You people pay for this? You dive with people and equipment that you have so little knowledge of and trust in? Why not just go out and play in traffic with your eyes closed? LOL

If I feel a dive calles for redundancy I'd use it and I don't see why I would care who "hones in on me". Let them hone away.

 

[TheRedHead]

We dived some fairly advanced dives in Micronesia when JB had about 15 dives...I would not call him a trusted buddy at that point. But its not like we were going to buddy with somebody else, realistically. Look, you know what it comes down to? Some people just don't worry about dying AS MUCH. So...where is the morality in taking two people who think like that and inflicting them on two other buddies? ..makes no sense.

I suppose the question is was JB close enough to be an alternate air supply? I don't want to die diving -- I like doing too much.

 

[RiverRat]

Mike, there have been anecdotal reports of people using rental Aluminum tanks who have had complete loss of gas supply as a result of going head down and having the dip tube obstructed with aluminum oxide debris. I think that's what Seuss is talking about.

I just had my steels in for VIP. One tank the dip tube fell out when I picked it up from the fill station at Dutch. My tanks are clean put going upside down without a dip tube was something to be concerned about.

The following week, as I was loading up to go help DM at Dutch again, I heard my tube rattling in the second tank. What are the odds of that? Both after VIP no doubt. I had planned to take off the valve and check the tube on the second tank, because of what happened with the first but didn't get to it before my next dive.

Anything can and will happen.

 

[Cacia]

Mine are being VIPed as we speak.

I was under the impression is does not take too big of a flake to mess with your first stage...

I guess I don't even trust the VIP person to be honest. Like RiverRat says...anything can happen

I suppose the question is was JB close enough to be an alternate air supply?

He never seemed to have any left, to be honest. Later we found out he was in some wierd too much triatholon overtraining condition..his resting H rate was 100, when it should have been 60. But we picked up on it when I am not sure a stranger would have, even if better trained than me. I am convinced they would have been focused on other things. I am pretty good at the "hmmm---what's wrong with this picture?" cause my mind is so freed up, lol. Seriously: thats my message, reserve some bandwidth for thinking.

I don't see why I would care who "hones in on me". Let them hone away

Because once they tell you to your face you cannot solo, you can forget it. Flying under the radar has its rewards.
Dennis and I have talked a lot about this and have had pretty identical experiences. Basically, solo is cool if you are a photog and don't fly it in their face and don't do it on dive number one before the crew has seen you dive. Be where you need to be on pick-up, and keep your mouth shut, thats what they want. SMB deployed at the end will buy me some time too.
I'm sure it varies regionally somewhat.

You need to give the operator plausible deniabilty.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mine are being VIPed as we speak.

I was under the impression is does not take too big of a flake to mess with your first stage...

I guess I don't even trust the VIP person to be honest. Like RiverRat says...anything can happen

I don't travel much to places I can't drive and I usually dive my own tanks and I do my own visual inspections. My tanks are clean.

He never seemed to have any left, to be honest. Later we found out he was in some wierd too much triatholon overtraining condition..his resting H rate was 100, when it should have been 60. But we picked up on it when I am not sure a stranger would have, even if better trained than me. I am convinced they would have been focused on other things. I am pretty good at the "hmmm---what's wrong with this picture?" cause my mind is so freed up, lol. Seriously: thats my message, reserve some bandwidth for thinking.

The key here is gas management and knowing when to head up.

Because once they tell you to your face you cannot solo, you can forget it. Flying under the radar has its rewards.
Dennis and I have talked a lot about this and have had pretty identical experiences. Basically, solo is cool if you are a photog and don't fly it in their face and don't do it on dive number one before the crew has seen you dive. Be where you need to be on pick-up, and keep your mouth shut, thats what they want. SMB deployed at the end will buy me some time too.
I'm sure it varies regionally somewhat.

You need to give the operator plausible deniabilty.

When I dive, I want the boat crew to know my dive plan. I don't want to be "under the radar". The crew should certaily know who is diving with who, at the very least.

I would never make it as a resort diver.