White's Fusion vs. DUI

[mikeguerrero]

Looking good! Now we just need to get you horizontal and work on finning technique a bit...

Thanks RJP,

It's only my 12th dive with the drysuit and each time I get better... Any recommendations on some videos you can pass my way for better horizontal trim and kicking?

I did the frog kick out to the reef then I used flutter to move me here and there, am I missing something?

Thanks, (sorry of for the hi-jack) RJP and I go way back when I was a tadpole on a BCD that he wanted to pop with a knife!!!

MG

 

[Rick Inman]

Any recommendations on some videos you can pass my way for better horizontal trim and kicking?

These guys have a nice video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt1jJk9lN5E

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have noticed that one of the cave diver favorites is to look at a picture and pick out all the things the diver is doing wrong or has configured poorly. I am as guilty as the rest at doing it, but it is important to understand when you do it that you are doing it out of context, or at least in a very limited context.

In the real world I have yet to meet a cave instructor you gets upset if you are within 10 degrees of horizotal. Given that you need to look forward when swimming and that your eyes are not in the top of your head, a 5 to 10 degree up angle is not a bad compromise between perfectly streamlined horizontal trim and maximizing your forward field of vision.

If a diver is always perfectly horizontally trimmed, the odds are they need to loosen up and have more fun. They are probably also the same divers who contact the overhead and/or swim into a diver in front of them who stopped on the line all due to not being able to see in front and above them as well as they need to.

In short, once you get within 10 degree of horizontal trimand can maintain it reliably, there are more important considerations and more important things to work on. But trim gets a lot more attnetion than it deserves past that point as it is visible and looking 'cool' and avoiding critisim by one's peers is imortant to many divers.

 

[WVMike]

I had the chance to dive a Whites Fusion and a DUI TLS 350 this weekend. I only have a total of four dives in each, but here is my opinion.

They both beat my OSS drysuit.

The DUI looks better and was easier to put on and take off, it also looks more rugged. But based on what others are saying in this thread, looks can be deceiving.

The Fusion was more flexible and easier to dive.

The fusion I tried had the sport skin, which I did not like. I would get one with the new limited edition tech skin with pockets and pee valve.

I agree the diving is more important than looks, based on the flexibility and ease of use, I have to vote for the Fusion.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I own three suits ...

- DUI TLS350 Signature (custom cut)
- DUI CLX450 Signature (custom cut)
- White's Fusion (size XXL standard)

I've put hundreds of dives on the former two suits, and about 40 dives on the Fusion. Of the three, my preferred suit is the TLS350, which is what I dive the most often.

Likes ...

- TLS350 ... it's comfortable, easy to get into and out of, lightweight, dries quickly, and simple to maintain

- CLX450 ... it's durable

- Fusion ... it's flexible and very lightweight for travel

Dislikes ...

- TLS350 ... haven't found much to dislike. It tends to get leaky from time to time, and I find and fix the leak (DUI stands for Dry Until Immersed).

- CLX450 ... it's heavy and less flexible than the other two suits

- Fusion ... it's a pain getting it on and off ... and it doesn't really fit me as well as advertised. I'm a fairly hefty guy, and while they promote the "oversized bag" and stretchiness of the outer skin, they made the forearms and calves area for skinny people, so it binds in those areas. I can get by with a thinner undergarment to compensate, but I typically dive in very cold (low 40's to mid 50's) water. My impression is that this suit isn't made for large people, no matter how it stretches.

I use the CLX450 for teaching, because of its durability. I use the Fusion for diving in warmer water where I can get away with just a MK2 undie and a thin base layer underneath it. I use the TLS350 for everything else.

Also ... I own several undergarments, and prefer a Weezle Extreme for diving in Puget Sound. The Fusion isn't compatible with that undergarment because of the Weezle's bulk ... and because the Weezle requires loft for warmth and the design of the Fusion is such that it keeps wanting to squeeze all the loft out of the undergarment.

So the answer to your question is really going to depend on a bunch of things ...

- your body shape
- what temperature water you're planning to dive it in
- what type undergarment you're going to use

Also, it's going to matter whether you want pockets you can use or not. The outer shell of the Fusion makes pockets problematic. Some users have figured out a way to attach velcro to their suit to "fix" the problem ... but unless you're into DIY solutions, with the Fusion you're going to have to accept a bit of "sag" when you put stuff in your pockets.

The one place where I think the Fusion will become my "favorite" is in the Florida caves ... where the water's pretty warm and a streamlined suit will provide a lot of benefit. I'll find out in August, when I go down there for my cave training.

Oh ... and if you're thinking to order a pee valve, don't get the stock White's one. It's just a small Sytek dump valve with a flexible hose attached ... no balanced check valve, no quick disconnect ... and it's way more expensive than better products like the Halcyon or Salvo valve. Skip the "factory installation" and have someone aftermarket install one for you.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[WVMike]

I own three suits ...

- DUI TLS350 Signature (custom cut)
- DUI CLX450 Signature (custom cut)
- White's Fusion (size XXL standard)

Likes ...

- TLS350 ... it's comfortable, easy to get into and out of, lightweight, dries quickly, and simple to maintain

Thanks for the good reviews lots of good points here, I did forget to mention the fusion did take awhile to dry versus the TLS 350.

-Also, it's going to matter whether you want pockets you can use or not. The outer shell of the Fusion makes pockets problematic. Some users have figured out a way to attach velcro to their suit to "fix" the problem ... but unless you're into DIY solutions, with the Fusion you're going to have to accept a bit of "sag" when you put stuff in your pockets.

Which skin does your Fusion have? I can see the sag problem in the Sport skin. Are you using factory pockets?

Oh ... and if you're thinking to order a pee valve, don't get the stock White's one. It's just a small Sytek dump valve with a flexible hose attached ... no balanced check valve, no quick disconnect ... and it's way more expensive than better products like the Halcyon or Salvo valve. Skip the "factory installation" and have someone aftermarket install one for you.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks for this tidbit as well, I have been using an unbalanced Pee valve, and don't want to go that rout again.

 

[HisLovelyBride]

I can only relate my experience with the Fusion as I have never tried any other. I love my Fusion! I dive in California so I got it for warmth. It is user friendly enough that even though I wouldn't recommend not taking a course, I was able to learn to dive it on my own. The outer skin is so good at evenly distributing air, I have never had any issue with an uncontrolled air pocket disrupting my buoyancy.

Durability, well, I think it is pretty durable. I have roughly 50 dives in my suit and the only blemish is on the outer skin (no consequence to the use of the suit) from a poorly maintained swim step on a dive boat. It is much like the snags you get in a wet suit under the same conditions. The cool part is that it didn't affect the inner layer which holds out the water. It is hardly noticeable and unless I pointed it out to you, you wouldn't even see it.

My husband who dives a trilam suit, wishes he had a Fusion, too. Although, he does seem to relish calling me his little power ranger LOL.

If there is a demo of the suit that you can attend, I highly recommend it. If you try it, you will love it. I love mine.

 

[mikeguerrero]

I believe the Fusion by all means is more streamline than the CLX450 as I have dove right up against one diver and he was very graceful in the water. I personally would probably love the suit if I ever dove it however, I have felt the outer and inner material and it feels very fragile.

As comfortable as the outer skin feels it's potential to snag is a concern to me. The hefty bag that separates the water looks akward to get into and you can see the krinkle parts all over the suit once they are fully zipped up.

And the pockets need to be connected to more than just the outer layer as they do hang out of place due to the flexibilty of the outer skin.

The CLX450 even though it's heavier and not streamline, I feel a great level of security when I enter the rough terrains of California cold waters, it may be bulky as divers have noted but it's the tuxedo of drysuits, it looks damn good both in water and out.

Every time I don the suit at the Break Water in Monterey I have half a dozen drysuit divers come and ask me, "is that the CLX450 drysuit, I like the way it looks". Only makes me smile and enjoy my dive.

Yes who cares about fashion when you dive, I know but hey it is what it is, a sharp looking suit.

MG

 

[TSandM]

I have to say that I agree that the Fusion LOOKs fragile. When I first got it, I was convinced every time I pulled it on that I was going to tear a hole in what looks for all the world like a big black trash bag. But we're now coming up on a year and a half of all kinds of diving (more than 100 dives) and I have yet to have ANY leak in the suit other than things I did to it.

It's funky looking, but I'll take a fast valve drill over looking sharp any day. Not sure I'd look sharp in a CLX 450, anyway -- I'm more likely to look sharp in the St. John knit outfit I bought with the $1000 I saved by buying the Fusion!

 

[on_two_wheels]

Looking good! Now we just need to get you horizontal and work on finning technique a bit...

Too funny!


I will add thanks to everyone for their opinions. I am currently shopping around. I was looking at the Pinnacle Freedom 2 and the Fusion. I saw both at the Long Beach show. The Freedom comes with a nice, large pocket and seemed very durable. The cost was great, too. I can get one for about $940 online. Add in undergarment, hood and boots and still under $1400 easily.

All the opinions have made up my mind, though. I can get a package deal for the Fusion for $1800 including shipping. That includes TWO skins (sport & tech), pockets on the tech skin, Whites boots, socks, 2-layer whites undergarment, backpack, patch kit and wax. Add all that up....anyone else wanna compare that to DUI pricing?