What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[Hotpuppy]

Someone who makes a habit of demeaning others has to start somewhere. For all we know, this could well be the instructor's first class. Surprising though it may be, there are some truly terrible and worthless people in this world... and in the dive industry.

Unfortunately, the only person who knows why .... isn't participating in the thread. Mattboy is right, there is another side of the story and unfortunately I haven't heard it.

I've tried to present as much of it as I can piece together... because there is the possibility that I did make a mistake....I was there to learn and in the process of learning we do things wrong. I readily admit it was wrong of me to lose my temper and yell at the instructor in front of others. Others have said they would have lost their temper sooner, so while it isn't right, I don't feel that out of line.

There was a breakdown in communication somewhere before the incident. Without the instructor participating I can't be sure where it occurred or what precipitated it. More importantly I can't analyze what should have been done differently to correct it and identify it before it got to this point. It most likely was a culmination of events that resulted in the incident.

 

[burliosully]

I would have serious reservations diving with a dive master who has logged between 25-50 dives. Perhaps it is a lack of self confidence in my own skills but while I know I need to take care of my self and heaven forbid my buddy, I would prefer that the leader of the dive have more experience than a few weeks a year. The whole world needs to be kinder to one another. There is no need for name calling. Sorry you had a bad experience, hope you find a fun group to grow, learn and practice with.

 

[Andy077]

In all honesty the response that the dive shop owner wrote you seemed fairly appropriate and professional to me. He apologized for your unpleasant experience and asked you what you wanted. I don't believe it was appropriate for you to post it here without the permission of the person who wrote it.

I am getting the distinct feeling that there is another side to this story. If the instructor has a proven track record of professional and positive interactions with students, it seems very unlikely to me that he would treat any student in the manner you described.

There's a lot of piling on based on one side of the story in this thread.

Matt, it sounds to me like a classic case of someone who was put into a stressful situation for the first time and found themselves unprepared for it.
I am referring to the instructor here. This is pure speculation, also known as blue-sky BS, but, the instructor may be wonderful, when everything goes as planned, and it's possible that he has never "misplaced" a student before. If thats the case, he probably has a great reputation, because he has never before had to react to that burst of adrenaline and stress that comes along with the fear that you may have really, really, screwed up. I've been in the fire service for 16 years, and I've seen this happen many times, someone who does great when everything goes smoothly, but freaks out when you throw them an unexpected stressor.

Edit:

And hotpuppy, I commend you for your restraint, I don't react so calmly to that sort of behavior.

 

[Hotpuppy]

Matt, it sounds to me like a classic case of someone who was put into a stressful situation for the first time and found themselves unprepared for it.
I am referring to the instructor here. This is pure speculation, also known as blue-sky BS, but, the instructor may be wonderful, when everything goes as planned, and it's possible that he has never "misplaced" a student before. If thats the case, he probably has a great reputation, because he has never before had to react to that burst of adrenaline and stress that comes along with the fear that you may have really, really, screwed up. I've been in the fire service for 16 years, and I've seen this happen many times, someone who does great when everything goes smoothly, but freaks out when you throw them an unexpected stressor.

Edit:

And hotpuppy, I commend you for your restraint, I don't react so calmly to that sort of behavior.

And that's precisely why it needs to go to QA. I'm not out to get the shop or the instructor. They've made a bad judgement call that I won't patronize. I'm pretty gung-ho on diving and I thought on the way home, do I really want to be in this? It shook me and I don't shake easily. As I began to analyze the situation I realized just how serious it was. Initially I treated it as a minor issue and placed most of the blame on myself. This forum helped me see that no really I was the one in trouble and fortunately I had the calm to deal with the situation and surface safely. It's what we all pray we can do when something goes wrong.

Nobody should lose their avocation over one bad incident. That's what anger management, debriefing the incident, and moving on are all about.

What aggravates me more than anything else is that the guy never came back and said, "Hey, I was worried, I freaked, I'm sorry. Can we sit down and discuss what you did and how to avoid it in the future?" Not even so much as a "I hate you, but I'm glad you aren't dead."

Anyhow, PADI apparently didn't get the QA. I called them to check on it and so I re-sent it.

I really appreciate all the feedback and advice. I appreciate even more those of you who have taken the time to point out what I should have done differently (Like make some flippin noise) when the visual signal failed. Had it not been for this forum I would have bought into the "you screwed up bigtime and should be glad your instructor, Teflon-Man(r) took the time to chew you out" mentality that was being pushed by the CD.

I also realize that I need to be alot more vocal when I see issues with a dive.... that's probably invaluable. I realize now that a *good* instructor will appreciate this not oppose it and be offended by it.
Specifically:
- Reverse profile dive
- Disregard for safe air supply limits (related to reverse dive profile)
- Lack of checkpoints on descent
- Lack of backup on a challenging dive
- Disregard for standards on backup lights
- No detailed separation plan or discussion.
- Too many objectives to focus on our training dive
- No predive outline (a day or two before hand so that all divers understand the objectives and equipment requirements)

 

[halocline]

As for piling on that you assert..... I think I've been pretty good about not doing that.

I'm sorry I was not clearer about this; I'm not in any way accusing you of "piling on", I'm referring to the multiple other posters that are so quick to condemn an instructor based entirely on your side of the story.

Your demeanor in this thread has been very even-tempered IMO, although I would not publish someone else's private communication.

My questions about this are based solely on the apparent likelihood of the scenario(s) that you have presented. I'm not disputing your perception of the situation, just reminding other posters that perceptions of the same event can vary considerably. Since none of us were present at the time of the incident, I find it a bit troubling that so many people are quick with very harsh statements about the other party.

 

[divin'dog]

... but, the instructor may be wonderful, when everything goes as planned, and it's possible that he has never "misplaced" a student before. If thats the case, he probably has a great reputation, because he has never before had to react to that burst of adrenaline and stress that comes along with the fear that you may have really, really, screwed up. I've been in the fire service for 16 years, and I've seen this happen many times, someone who does great when everything goes smoothly, but freaks out when you throw them an unexpected stressor.

Kinda like good players and bad players in baseball... Anyone can field the easy ones. It's the hard, tough plays that separate the good players from the mediocre and is more telling of someone's ability.

 

[redacted]

In looking around at some of the entities that might have been involved in this, I ran into this description of one shop's MSDT; "A week after getting his Open Water certification he gained his Advanced Open Water status. The following month he became a Rescue Diver. Within his first year as a diver he completed his Divemaster certification and logged 100 dives."

This may well not even be the shop involved, but what kind of shop/course director/instructor sees this as a good thing for a professional scuba resume?

 

[Thalassamania]

The implication is that he was so good, such a natural, that he was able to progress rapidly. That ignores the other explanation: that the hurdles were not very high.

 

[iztok]

In looking around at some of the entities that might have been involved in this, I ran into this description of one shop's MSDT; "A week after getting his Open Water certification he gained his Advanced Open Water status. The following month he became a Rescue Diver. Within his first year as a diver he completed his Divemaster certification and logged 100 dives."

This may well not even be the shop involved, but what kind of shop/course director/instructor sees this as a good thing for a professional scuba resume?

What is wrong? If the above instructor was diving different environments and working with different instructors plenty of experience can be gained. 100 dives is 66% more than base for DM (60 dives). 100 is not a trivial amount of dives. (I am at 140 mark within my first year and have quite decent amount of training and dive experience in different dive conditions and places.) I am midway of my DM training. I think that just the fact I managed to do this within a year instead of taking 3 years to do it should not count against it.

Tell me what is bad about the above professional scuba resume?

 

[halocline]

Someone who makes a habit of demeaning others has to start somewhere. For all we know, this could well be the instructor's first class.

I think it's been established that the instructor involved has some experience (MSDT) and has had a positive experience with students before. I just don't think an instructor would last long treating students as described in this thread.

I know there are some assholes teaching scuba, I met a few as a DMT! (not necessarily those at the shop with which I trained...mostly they were terrific)

Thinking about this, it's possible that the instructor was being more critical of the OP because he was considering him as a DMT, not as a specialty student. I'm not condoning that at all. I just know that there are instructors that are much harsher with DMTs (viewing them as future pros) than they are with OW and purely recreational students. Again, I do not condone this type of behavior at all; in fact, I find it to be particularly counter productive.