What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[Hotpuppy]

You seem disappointed that they haven't announced the instructor's immediate termination, and instead have given you the standard response any employer would give regarding an employee.

You bring up some interesting points. The one critical thing the shop failed to do is assure me that they had taken steps to ensure this wouldn't happen again. Instead they commended the instructor.

I don't expect them to tell me what they did with the instructor. That's between them and him. I do expect to be told something along the lines of "We have investigated, determined that the conduct deviated from our standards, and have taken steps to ensure that you do not have that experience again."

Perhaps I read it wrong..... but I didn't see anything approaching that. I did not see an assurance that it won't recur.

As far as what I spend, I don't consider myself a "big spender." Profitable? Probably.... it's usually not bad to be a profitable customer. Just surprising that they would write off a customer.

As far as posting the redacted copy. I thought some of the responders were "piling on" as Mattboy said. I think I've been reasonable, rational, and cool-headed throughout this incident. Sharing that it is generating the desired outcome might encourage someone else to be reasonable.

Some people have already figured out what shop was involved. Others may have a pretty good idea. Sharing that the shop was reasonable and professional even if they weren't where I felt they should have been is the *right* thing to do. I've seen websites like ripoffreport.com where all you get is the angry side of the story. I wanted to make sure this thread didn't devolve into that.

Lastly, the reason this thread started was that the CD questioned my judgement pretty hard and tried to make me think I had screwed up somehow to justify the berating. I wanted experienced outside opinions to evaluate my course of action and validate my response to the dive issue. I got that... and am greatful for it.

 

[redacted]

I"m confused as to why this thread is still going on.

You spent 2 hours with the CD. You've discussed the incident with the shop owner, DM and the other instructor. The shop acknowledged that something went awry and they're prepared to work out a refund if you tell them what you want. At this point, the only additional info that's being added is how much money the shop is going to lose because you're a big spender with affluent friends. You seem disappointed that they haven't announced the instructor's immediate termination, and instead have given you the standard response any employer would give regarding an employee.



Is this a surprise?? Even though many have acknowledged that we're only hearing one side of the story, the instructor's credentials are already being attacked and people have deemed him unfit to teach based on one version of one incident. If you're looking for mediation to resolve the issue, you should be asking the shop/CD to set it up privatelyrather than in a public forum in which most seem to have already established that the instructor was 110% at fault. Would you jump into a public forum to defend -- and identify -- yourself if you were this instructor? I definitely wouldn't.

When things go wrong on deep dives, stress levels escalate and things get said in the heat of the moment. And yes, one would hope that a professional can keep his temper in check when these things happen...but instructors are human. I've never yelled at a student, but I did see one student flip out on his fiancee when she aborted a deep dive without letting anyone know. Based solely on that one response to stress, however, I wouldn't extrapolate that he's an unfit husband.

If you're seeking an explanation or apology, you'll have to meet the instructor face to face. Hopefully both of you have had time to calm down and can talk through it like civilized adults. You aren't going to get any resolution just by posting here.

Someone a lot like you once said: "If you see bad things happening and you do nothing help improve them, you're just as much a part of the problem as the people you're whining about!"

 

[RJP]

The one critical thing the shop failed to do is assure me that they had taken steps to ensure this wouldn't happen again.

Since we've only got one side of the story, if you're going to throw a slow hanging curveball right out over the middle of the plate like that...

Perhaps you've already handled that for them by severing your relationship with them?

or :shocked2: - not sure which.

 

[redacted]

Since we've only got one side of the story, if you're going to throw a slow hanging curveball right out over the middle of the plate like that...

Perhaps you've already handled that for them by severing your relationship with them?

or :shocked2: - not sure which.

The shop clearly has the right to remain silent. I guess they believe that is in their best interest at this point.

 

[vladimir]

In hindsight what I should have done is kept my mouth shut and called the police to complain about assault. Austin PD would have come out and assault is a heck of alot more serious then anything PADI will do. For those that don't know assault is verbal, battery is physical. Both are crimes.

Really? How would this have gone?

911 Operator: This is the Austin police department, what is the nature of your emergency?
You: My instructor assaulted me.
911: Where are you located, sir?
You: Lake Travis.
911: What is the nature of your injuries, sir? Do you need an ambulance?
You: No...no ambulance...my feelings were hurt.
911: Huh?
911: ....sir, did you say your feelings were hurt?
You: Yes, he hurt my feelings, he verbally assaulted me, he called me a f*%!-ing idiot!
911: ....
911: ...Sir, you are a f@#$-ing idiot!
911: dial tone

 

[joolz]

Someone a lot like you once said: "If you see bad things happening and you do nothing help improve them, you're just as much a part of the problem as the people you're whining about!"

Sounds like a smart cookie. I bet he's very handsome too

I'm not saying do nothing. The OP did report the incident to the CD, the shop owner and apparently PADI QA. I may have attempted mediation prior to bringing in the PADI police, but depending on the circumstances, maybe not. I'm just wondering what possible benefit comes from 18 pages of comments admonishing an unnamed instructor and dive shop, which has already said they've "taken appropriate measures" after interviewing people who were actually there (which rules out everybody posting here except the OP). The assumption seems to be that the shop's measures aren't appropriate, even though nobody knows what they are.

It's pretty much a given that neither the instructor nor the shop is going to comment here since there's no possible benefit to doing so. I still maintain that conflicts like this are best handled privately and in person.

 

[seaducer]

As far as what I spend, I don't consider myself a "big spender." Profitable? Probably.... it's usually not bad to be a profitable customer. Just surprising that they would write off a customer.

Color me cynical, but I really have to wonder why the LDS owner is letting you and your checkbook walk away without so much as a whimper.

There has to be more to this story...

 

[B Lo]

... I still maintain that conflicts like this are best handled privately and in person.

Why argue with someone who has your money in a forum of their choosing? The playing field is much more equal elsewhere (e.g., this forum). If someone acts wrongly, they must be made to understand that consequences can and likely will result.

A few years ago in a suburb of Boston, I saw a woman yank her young child out of the car by her arm - clearly hard enough to have dislocated it. I don't care what the other side of the story is. It doesn't matter what the kid did or didn't do. Certain behavior is absolutely unacceptable. Incidentally, I contacted the police with the license plate and other identifying information.

Point is that people who choose to behave like animals (or have such poor impulse control that they do so regardless of their wishes) aren't entitled to due process in a forum. Too bad, so sad. Incidentally, if anyone knows the name of the shop, please PM me so I can be sure not to visit it. I have family in Texas and would like to ensure that I don't encounter this jerk.

 

[D_B]

Hotpuppy .. I think your reactions, expectations, and subsequent actions ... all sound reasonable (well, except that calling the police one)

I think you'll be a person that will be an asset to SCUBA and scuba divers

 

[seaducer]

Point is that people who choose to behave like animals (or have such poor impulse control that they do so regardless of their wishes) aren't entitled to due process in a forum. Too bad, so sad. Incidentally, if anyone knows the name of the shop, please PM me so I can be sure not to visit it. I have family in Texas and would like to ensure that I don't encounter this jerk.

Actually, the bigger point is that everybody IS entitled to due process. I am glad Hotpuppy is insisting that the name of the shop etc. remain unwritten.

On the one hand we have an account of an incident from a very well spoken individual which portrays one party as having done nothing wrong, and behaving extremely honorably given the circumstances.

The other party is almost cartoonishly described in how they behaved. Then later we find out this person has dropped ~6000$ within the last year in the shop, with plans to spend who knows how much more? The LDS owner apparently is willing to lose such a lucrative customer without much of fight, if any.

Does that make ANY sense to anybody?

On the other hand is the rest of the story.

Is it at all possible that things did not transpire exactly the way they have been presented to us