What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[Andy077]

Hey guys.... not to burst bubbles.... but the two Instructors who come up on google with that phrase aren't involved. I don't want to even accidentally tarnish someone's reputation.

As for the offender and his LDS.....They are both based in Houston.

Btw, I spoke to PADI QA today while making sure they had gotten my email. They hadn't, but when I described the incident they were pretty concerned. The CSR and QA people were extremely nice about the whole thing. I had to re-forward my email... which is wierd because I have Gmail and... well gmail just doesn't have delivery problems.

In hindsight what I should have done is kept my mouth shut and called the police to complain about assault. Austin PD would have come out and assault is a heck of alot more serious then anything PADI will do. For those that don't know assault is verbal, battery is physical. Both are crimes.

Well, there's where I have to disagree with you. Yes, MAYBE, technically it is assault, but honestly, it's not, and calling the cops when someone hurts your feelings, as long as he wasn't threatening to attack you, is weak.

 

[Andy077]

In my jurisdiction that is called "Terroristic threats". IE language that is designed to incite terror in somebody.

Being insulted in NJ is not a crime, its an expectation

Isn't it insulting enough to suggest that someone is FROM NJ?

 

[jonathon50]

that instructor wasnt very professional! i fell foul of 2 instructors recently,but without the swearing, it was a mini bollocking. I am a DMC,TDM? in the UK. We do our training dives at a quarry called Stoney Cove, where to say the least the viz is usually crap, especially on the 7 mtre shelf where the training of O/W students gets done, viz gets even crappier after they been churning it up! anyway, was on dive 2, my instructor in front, 2 students in front and just below me, i'm in the middle above and behind them. the other instructor is with his student behind me. anyway 1 of the students stops indicating probs with his ears, we all stop while i am with him trying to sort it out, anyway all seems well and he's happy to go on, off we go, few mtres later he stops again as does his buddy, who kneels down. i ask him if he's ok? NO comes the reply,then off he goes to the surface, not bolting but determined, he obviously had enough of the pain. what do i do? do i let him go and stay with the other student, or go with him to make sure he is ok? at this point i couldnt see either instructor (viz) but wasnt overly concerned as i knew they were there, so i went with the student to the surface. he was in pain and i had to inflate his BCD for him as he was distracted. at the de-brief i was asked how i would score myself. i said dive 1, give myself a 1 for showing up, (one of those days). dive 2 i felt went better, my instructor told me he needed better comms from me, the other said i put a student in danger! i didnt argue just listened as perhaps there was something else for me to learn. on the way home later another instructor i had given a lift too ,said i had done the right thing, and felt that my instructor was in the wrong as why wasnt he close enough to see what was going on? but heres the strange thing, after giving me the mini bollocking my instructor said he was happy to dive with me again WTF!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Color me cynical, but I really have to wonder why the LDS owner is letting you and your checkbook walk away without so much as a whimper.

There has to be more to this story...

... not necessarily ... I know two shop owners in my area who are each other's best salesmen ... they're both extremely good at doing things that send some of their best customers to the other guy's shop ...

I used to work for one of 'em, and watched from the sidelines as a business dispute over a $5 shipping charge resulted in him losing over $20,000 in sales. That particular dispute was rather publicly hashed out on The Deco Stop, in fact. The shop owner claimed he was sticking to his "principles" ...



... "principles" don't pay bills. For a bit less than $5 he could've made the complainer happy and came off publicly like someone who took good care of his customers. Instead he came off like an arrogant jerk who couldn't keep his word.

Owning a business doesn't necessarily make someone a businessman ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TCDiver1]

... "principles" don't pay bills. For a bit less than $5 he could've made the complainer happy and came off publicly like someone who took good care of his customers. Instead he came off like an arrogant jerk who couldn't keep his word.

Owning a business doesn't necessarily make someone a businessman ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Excess ego causes many business failures, especially in the dive business.

I've watched shop owners refuse sell to potential customers and/or kick them out of their shops if they bought any item on the internet.

In one case, the shop owner actually had many items in the shop priced above MSRP, the customer pointed one item out, so the owner kicked her out. Needless to say, that shop is no longer in business.

Amazing!

 

[miked]

Isn't it insulting enough to suggest that someone is FROM NJ?

Now THAT'S an insult!

( I'm a lifelong NJ resident, and insulter)

 

[Kingpatzer]

Tell me what is bad about the above professional scuba resume?

For the past 2 years I've been working on towards my OWSI (I passed my IE this last weekend). I spent those 2 years frequently (on average of 3 classes a month) sitting in on both classroom, pool and open water sessions.

As part of that mentoring program I've been able to work with over 400 different students in that time period. I've been working with folks struggling with skills and had to deal directly with people beginning to panic in water, having equipment issues, and so on. In leading dives I've had to deal with taking students into less than ideal visibility or thermal conditions and making sure they stay safe.

I've learned far more about teaching diving from those experiences than I ever garnered from my DM course itself or the IDC course and pool work; and certainly more than I ever picked up from my own logged dives.

The problem with your schedule is, from my own perspective, that it lacks the exposure to other beginning divers necessary to understand how to be an effective, safe DM or instructor. I don't buy into the idea that an instructor needs a thousand dives to be able to be safe. But I do buy into the idea that the instructor needs exposure to hundreds of students in various conditions to be safe.

Having finished my IE, I'm still not done being mentored in that area. I fully expect and plan to do nothing more than assist with courses (except for perhaps specialties where I can work 1-on-1 with a student) for another year at a minimum. Other people's lives require I have the experience to know how to handle the unexpected calmly, professionally, and correctly.

 

[iztok]

For the past 2 years I've been working on towards my OWSI (I passed my IE this last weekend). I spent those 2 years frequently (on average of 3 classes a month) sitting in on both classroom, pool and open water sessions.

As part of that mentoring program I've been able to work with over 400 different students in that time period. I've been working with folks struggling with skills and had to deal directly with people beginning to panic in water, having equipment issues, and so on. In leading dives I've had to deal with taking students into less than ideal visibility or thermal conditions and making sure they stay safe.

I've learned far more about teaching diving from those experiences than I ever garnered from my DM course itself or the IDC course and pool work; and certainly more than I ever picked up from my own logged dives.

The problem with your schedule is, from my own perspective, that it lacks the exposure to other beginning divers necessary to understand how to be an effective, safe DM or instructor. I don't buy into the idea that an instructor needs a thousand dives to be able to be safe. But I do buy into the idea that the instructor needs exposure to hundreds of students in various conditions to be safe.

Having finished my IE, I'm still not done being mentored in that area. I fully expect and plan to do nothing more than assist with courses (except for perhaps specialties where I can work 1-on-1 with a student) for another year at a minimum. Other people's lives require I have the experience to know how to handle the unexpected calmly, professionally, and correctly.

I call the straw-man on this one!

We are talking about this paragraph: "A week after getting his Open Water certification he gained his Advanced Open Water status. The following month he became a Rescue Diver. Within his first year as a diver he completed his Divemaster certification and logged 100 dives."

So we are talking from OW to DM in first year. We are not talking from DM to OWSI. As DMC you are very limited on what you can do to be exposed to the students. Only once you reach DM status you are considered a professional and have certain responsibilities and are more exposed to work with students.

Care to try again?

BTW: I will agree with you that it is very beneficial for DM to be exposed to many students and learning situations but as non-professional (before reaching DM) you really can't have that opportunity to the extent you are advertising here.

 

[airbornediver1]

hmmmm

 

[airbornediver1]

A person telling a story tends to tell the version that flatters the story teller. With that being said, if what you say is true, than this is my advice. Get over it. You had a bad dive. We've all had them. Sounds like you had a problem, you fixed it, and nobody was hurt. Good training! Find a new instructor and finish your course.