What to do when an instructor is out of line?

[MXGratefulDiver]

People tend to tell the version of the story that is most flattering to the story teller. As far as telling the shop and getting a full refund for a wasted day as awap said, I question that too. Was it really a wasted day? Did you or did you not learn anything? You got seperated from your partner, you fixed your ear problem, and you did a lost buddy check at the surface. Sounds like good training to me. As far as a dive plan, I don't know what you guys had agreed on, if anything. However, there is a reason for the saying always have a plan B. Plan A seldom works out. That's why you need to be proficient in your diving, so you can save yourself, which it sounds like you did. It does not sound pretty, but you did. 30 foot reef dives in the Key's with 100 foot vis does not make you a great diver. Thick suits, lot's of weight, and 6 foot of vis does. It's not easy, but it makes you more confident. Your instructor probably freaked because he screwed the pooch and lost you in bad vis, that would be my guess as to why he showed his ass on the surface. File what you learned, pat yourself on the back for handling a bad dive, and move on.

... but if he learned anything, it apears to have been a self-taught lesson.

You are not paying an instructor to scream at you for making mistakes ... you are paying an instructor to, among other things, set an example on how to properly plan and execute a dive (this did not occur), and to debrief your mistakes (this did not occur) and to explain to you how to avoid making them in the future (this also did not occur).

You can learn from your own mistakes without the expense of taking a class ... everybody does. But like any other service you purchase, you have a right to expect some reasonable level of return from the service provider.

If they don't provide it, then a refund is a reasonable expectation ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seaducer]

Isn't it insulting enough to suggest that someone is FROM NJ?

No. I would like very much to say I was FROM NJ. As opposed to saying I live IN Nj. :shocked2:







Then again...it really isn't that bad down here where I live.

 

[vladimir]

No. I would like very much to say I was FROM NJ. As opposed to saying I live IN Nj. :shocked2:

 

[seaducer]

... not necessarily ... I know two shop owners in my area who are each other's best salesmen ... they're both extremely good at doing things that send some of their best customers to the other guy's shop ...

I know of people like this too, but IME this is the exception, not the rule. I am not saying that what the OP is reporting is not true, but I have to be honest the needle on my BS meter is pegged. The only hard facts we have, is that the whole story is being reported by one biased source. I can not indict a dive shop or instructor based on anything we have seen in this thread.

I used to work for one of 'em, and watched from the sidelines as a business dispute over a $5 shipping charge resulted in him losing over $20,000 in sales. That particular dispute was rather publicly hashed out on The Deco Stop, in fact. The shop owner claimed he was sticking to his "principles" ...

That sounds like an idiotic shop owner for sure. But that also goes both ways. If you were spending $20K, would you even NOTICE a $5 discrepency? And if you did, honestly, is it worth arguing over?

That story sounds like two a-holes trying to out fart each other.

Owning a business doesn't necessarily make someone a businessman ...

True. But being a businessman can also make you a horrible customer. I suspect if we had all the facts in this story we might see a little bit of both types...

 

[RJP]

No. I would like very much to say I was FROM NJ. As opposed to saying I live IN Nj. :shocked2:

NJ's bad rap is merely a result of a carefully crafted and well-executed "anti-marketing" campaign to keep even more people from living here!

Then again...it really isn't that bad down here where I live.

Right....

 

[TSandM]

Somebody made a comment a ways back about the stress of losing a student . . . I've been involved in one of those incidents (the student was me) and a bystander in another (the instructor was my husband). I can tell you that, in both cases, the instructor was EXTREMELY stressed -- Peter obsessed about his incident for weeks. And people under severe stress CAN behave very atypically.

It may well be that this instructor and the OP were a bad match, temperament-wise, from the beginning, and that a good deal of frustration and irritation met a lot of adrenaline on the day described, resulting in unusual behavior from the instructor. That doesn't condone it, but certainly might help explain why it occurred.

One hopes the instructor learned something about how to conduct deep dives with students in very poor viz.

 

[ianr33]

Not an instructor but I have done the odd dive in Travis.

Teams of 3 in bad viz do not work. I rarely dive in Travis as a 3. When I do the dive plan is generally to carry on solo in the event of separation. (Redundant regs,doubles etc)
I dont see how an instructor can keep tabs on 2 students in viz that is typically only a few feet and can easily get reduced to inches.

I saw a diver die at Travis a few years ago. The circumstances were strange to put it mildly. He was diving (kind of) with an instructor,got separated and was found unresponsive on the bottom maybe 30 minutes later. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/206265-drowning-windy-point-10-13-2007-a.html
Messed up dives at depth in bad viz can all too easily have bad outcomes.

 

[redacted]

I know of people like this too, but IME this is the exception, not the rule. I am not saying that what the OP is reporting is not true, but I have to be honest the needle on my BS meter is pegged. The only hard facts we have, is that the whole story is being reported by one biased source. I can not indict a dive shop or instructor based on anything we have seen in this thread..

Yes, we are only hearing one side. But, according to the OP, the shop knows of this thread and apparently has opted not to correct any misrepresentations. If your BS meter also has any doubt about the shop being notified, there are only 3 shops listed as PADI shops in Austin. Perhaps you would like to make sure they know of this thread.

It may well be that this instructor and the OP were a bad match, temperament-wise, from the beginning, and that a good deal of frustration and irritation met a lot of adrenaline on the day described, resulting in unusual behavior from the instructor. That doesn't condone it, but certainly might help explain why it occurred.

One hopes the instructor learned something about how to conduct deep dives with students in very poor viz.

I'm sure the instructor was stressed. But it is not just the separation incident, or the unprofessional behavior of the instructor on the surface that is the issue here. My issue is with a dive shop that tried to pin this on the OP and apparently wants to leave it that way even if they have to give up some $$ for unsatisfactory and canceled services.

 

[RJP]

My issue is with a dive shop that tried to pin this on the OP and apparently wants to leave it that way even if they have to give up some $$ for unsatisfactory and canceled services.

Not talking about dive shops specifically, but in any industry/business there are plenty of customers that are not worth whatever dollars they will take with them when they go.

Not saying that the OP necessarily falls into this bucket, but some customers just aren't worth it.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

If your BS meter also has any doubt about the shop being notified, there are only 3 shops listed as PADI shops in Austin. Perhaps you would like to make sure they know of this thread.

Isn't OP from Houston?