BIGSAGE136
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Green_Manelishi:
Where would the apostles have been without the ability to develop a concept?
What ever happened to RESPECT
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Where would the apostles have been without the ability to develop a concept?
medic_diver45
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"Men do evil things never so gleefully or completely as when they are done as a result of strong religious conviction."
I stand behind my statement that most people miss the point of religion. As I taken them to be (and if you don't agree, that's fine), even though these are not technically strictly religious tenets:
1. You are to do good things without an expectation of reward or thanks, in this life or the next. The sole purpose of your existence is to leave the world a little better than you found it, if even for one person (not yourself).
2. You are to do what is right, even when you don't think anyone is looking. The definition of right is that path which I would have the least qualms answering for if I were to be judged by the Almighty.
3. You are to support others, be it monetarily, through the sweat of your own brow, or by simply speaking out on their behalf when it is needed. You pick up those who fall, and you help those who can not help themselves simply because that is what good people do.
4. You do not standby and allow the evil amongst us, flourish.
You may not be able to stamp it out completely, but you can make life difficult for those who are wicked. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke
That's the short list of the way I look at leading a "good" lifestyle. There's a lot more to it than just that, but I don't feel like typing it all out right now.
-Steve
I stand behind my statement that most people miss the point of religion. As I taken them to be (and if you don't agree, that's fine), even though these are not technically strictly religious tenets:
1. You are to do good things without an expectation of reward or thanks, in this life or the next. The sole purpose of your existence is to leave the world a little better than you found it, if even for one person (not yourself).
2. You are to do what is right, even when you don't think anyone is looking. The definition of right is that path which I would have the least qualms answering for if I were to be judged by the Almighty.
3. You are to support others, be it monetarily, through the sweat of your own brow, or by simply speaking out on their behalf when it is needed. You pick up those who fall, and you help those who can not help themselves simply because that is what good people do.
4. You do not standby and allow the evil amongst us, flourish.
You may not be able to stamp it out completely, but you can make life difficult for those who are wicked. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke
That's the short list of the way I look at leading a "good" lifestyle. There's a lot more to it than just that, but I don't feel like typing it all out right now.
-Steve
Green_Manelishi
Contributor
BIGSAGE136:Where would the apostles have been without the ability to develop a concept?
Well, I am going out on a limb here and TheDivingPreacher can correct me if he chooses ...
Several of the Apostles (with a notable exception in Saul of Tarsus and Mathias (?) who was 'drawn by lots to replace Judas Iscariot') actually knew God as Jesus Christ. Of course, at the time they were Disciples. Saul become Paul through an experience on the road to Damascus. Even then Christ revealed Himself; Saul/Paul did not 'develop a concept'.
It was because of this personal experience with Him they were able to boldly and confidently go forth into the world preaching the GOOD NEWS.
RIDIVER501
Contributor
Totally Agree.
We should all be doing the right thing becuase it is the right thing to do.
Too often the right thing is done only when it is convenient, if done at all.
We should all be doing the right thing becuase it is the right thing to do.
Too often the right thing is done only when it is convenient, if done at all.
Green_Manelishi:
With a little help from the Holly Spirit.
Green_Manelishi
Contributor
MikeFerrara:
That's for sure. Seemed though the Apostles were happy enough to sit around and wait for Him to return until He allowed persecution to force them to scatter and do what He had told them to do.
Green_Manelishi
Contributor
RIDIVER501:
But have you never encountered someone who did what was "right for them" even if it was not right (for you)?
To almost paraphrase the Book of Judges, Unless there is an objective standard we will all do what is right in our own eyes.
G_M
DivingPreacher, Sage, especially you Sage, 'cause we've met and know eachother outside the board, please understand that I do not mean to insult either of your beliefs. In fact, I agree with lots of it. After all, I am a P.K.
I believe the bible is a book of accounts of Godly men, who wrote in inspiration about what they lived, saw, or were taught by men like Gamaliel (sorry if the spelling is incorrect, but I learned the bible initially in Spanish). In fact, and again, no ofense to anyone, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, that the only passages in the bible that were written by, or dictated by God, are the ten commandments.
Most religions believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God, and that's fine. However, theology and history teaches us otherwise. Here are a few examples:
DISCLAIMER..THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO DESTROY ANYONE'S FAITH, BUT MERELY TO OFFER A THEOLOGICAL AND HISTORICAL ACCOUNT
1 Genesis 1:1 In the begining God created the heavens and the earth
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was void and without form.
It is estimated by those who know more than I do, that there is a gap of over 400 years between the accounts of verse 1 and the accounts of verse 2, which suggests that there could be some truth to the theory of the big bang, and that within this gap of time is when it happened.
2 If Moses wrote the pentateuch, how could he write about his own death?
3 The book of Isaiah was written by three different prohets, all named Isaiah. If you read the book in its literal context, you'll see the three different writing styles.
Chapters 1 - 39 Isaiah of Jerusalem
Chapters 40 - 52 Second Isaiah (can't remember where he was from)
Chapters 53 - 66 Third Isaiah (same)
4 1st Thesalonians Chapter 14:16, if read in its literal context, Paul and the rest of the church expected Christ's second comming to be in their time; "and those of us who remain...."
5 The bible does not account for 18 years of Jesus' life. It is believed that during that time Jesus traveled to Asia, and lived among the monks in an effort to learn about the concept of energy and space.
The bible was written in three different languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek. To date, the only ones of the original manuscripts that exist are those written in Greek. In those manuscripts there is no mention of the trinity. I forget the cite, but a verse in the bible states, and this is a pharaphrase, "for not even the angels know the time." In the greek manuscripts that verse reads "for not even the angels, nor the son, know the time," implying that the Father, the son, and the holy spirit are not one. It has been determined by those theologians and historians that know more than me, that the concept of the trinity was added to the bible in the year 1742 during the period of enlightment.
I don't post this to boast about any personal knowledge, but to merely suggest that while divingpreacher and Sage present a concept of faith that is quite generic in nature (by generic I mean that it does not point one religion as the right religion and the others as the wrong), there is perhaps a humanistic view we should consider.
And if we're mature enough to respect eachother's views, as we have in this thread, regardless of whether we accept them or not, and we can teach our kids the same, then perhaps there is hope that respect will once again blossom.
I believe the bible is a book of accounts of Godly men, who wrote in inspiration about what they lived, saw, or were taught by men like Gamaliel (sorry if the spelling is incorrect, but I learned the bible initially in Spanish). In fact, and again, no ofense to anyone, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, that the only passages in the bible that were written by, or dictated by God, are the ten commandments.
Most religions believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God, and that's fine. However, theology and history teaches us otherwise. Here are a few examples:
DISCLAIMER..THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO DESTROY ANYONE'S FAITH, BUT MERELY TO OFFER A THEOLOGICAL AND HISTORICAL ACCOUNT
1 Genesis 1:1 In the begining God created the heavens and the earth
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was void and without form.
It is estimated by those who know more than I do, that there is a gap of over 400 years between the accounts of verse 1 and the accounts of verse 2, which suggests that there could be some truth to the theory of the big bang, and that within this gap of time is when it happened.
2 If Moses wrote the pentateuch, how could he write about his own death?
3 The book of Isaiah was written by three different prohets, all named Isaiah. If you read the book in its literal context, you'll see the three different writing styles.
Chapters 1 - 39 Isaiah of Jerusalem
Chapters 40 - 52 Second Isaiah (can't remember where he was from)
Chapters 53 - 66 Third Isaiah (same)
4 1st Thesalonians Chapter 14:16, if read in its literal context, Paul and the rest of the church expected Christ's second comming to be in their time; "and those of us who remain...."
5 The bible does not account for 18 years of Jesus' life. It is believed that during that time Jesus traveled to Asia, and lived among the monks in an effort to learn about the concept of energy and space.
The bible was written in three different languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek. To date, the only ones of the original manuscripts that exist are those written in Greek. In those manuscripts there is no mention of the trinity. I forget the cite, but a verse in the bible states, and this is a pharaphrase, "for not even the angels know the time." In the greek manuscripts that verse reads "for not even the angels, nor the son, know the time," implying that the Father, the son, and the holy spirit are not one. It has been determined by those theologians and historians that know more than me, that the concept of the trinity was added to the bible in the year 1742 during the period of enlightment.
I don't post this to boast about any personal knowledge, but to merely suggest that while divingpreacher and Sage present a concept of faith that is quite generic in nature (by generic I mean that it does not point one religion as the right religion and the others as the wrong), there is perhaps a humanistic view we should consider.
And if we're mature enough to respect eachother's views, as we have in this thread, regardless of whether we accept them or not, and we can teach our kids the same, then perhaps there is hope that respect will once again blossom.
I hope ya'll are able to enjoy the diversity of beliefs amongs divers... its to easy to let something which has such deep meaning to most people (diversely at that) slip an impassable wedge into what would otherwise be a flawless relationship/interaction. 
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