What ever happened to RESPECT

[Green_Manelishi]

Comments on only two portions.

Genesis 1:1 In the begining God created the heavens and the earth
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was void and without form.

It is estimated by those who know more than I do, that there is a gap of over 400 years between the accounts of verse 1 and the accounts of verse 2, which suggests that there could be some truth to the theory of the big bang, and that within this gap of time is when it happened.

What evidence to indicate a gap? The only portion of the 'big bang' that agrees with the Genesis account is that suddenly something happened. Of course, because something cannot naturally arise from nothing it is assumed their was a "quantum singularity" (but from where did that arise? Or was it always there? Inquiring minds like Carl Sagan and Stephen J Gould don't care) that exploded and therefore there is no supernatural explanation for creation.

5 The bible does not account for 18 years of Jesus' life. It is believed that during that time Jesus traveled to Asia, and lived among the monks in an effort to learn about the concept of energy and space.

Believed by whom?

Those 18 years of His life are apparently not relevant to His purpose on earth. Why would He, as creator, need to spend time with monks in Asia learning about energy and space? He created everything therefore He understands it very well.

If we/you/I simply dispense with any portion of the Bible we believe is inaccurate we might as well throw it all out and simply do what feels right and believe what we will about anything we choose.

Historically, all the attempts to discredit the Bible have failed.
Fear not, my faith is as solid as it ever was.

 

[Land Locked]

This has been an enlightening discussion and there have been many
very good ideas and thoughts put forward, but are we not deviating from
the intention of this thread concerning a discussion on society and respect?
It has become a theological discussion about religion and beliefs instead of
where our society as a whole is headed. I linked to this thread from issues we
have been seeing out at Joe’s quarry dealing with vandalism and lack of respect
for other people’s property. I hope we can resolve those issues.
I have great respect for all those that have posted here, we are lucky to have
so many brilliant minds in this community. I graciously bow out of this thread
holding to my commitments about refraining on discussions of religion and politics.
I am just happy to this point that things have remained relatively under control.
May God bless you, whichever religion or God you hold dear to your heart.
The Kingdom of God is within you, not in a stone and mortar structure built by man.
See you in the water!

 

[Scubaguy62]

Comments on only two portions.



What evidence to indicate a gap? The only portion of the 'big bang' that agrees with the Genesis account is that suddenly something happened. Of course, because something cannot naturally arise from nothing it is assumed their was a "quantum singularity" (but from where did that arise? Or was it always there? Inquiring minds like Carl Sagan and Stephen J Gould don't care) that exploded and therefore there is no supernatural explanation for creation.

Truthfully, I don't care. I could ask you why else would verse two say "And the earth was void and without form[,]" if God creates all things perfect, but that's inciting a religious debate in which I care not to engage.

Believed by whom?

Those 18 years of His life are apparently not relevant to His purpose on earth. Why would He, as creator, need to spend time with monks in Asia learning about energy and space? He created everything therefore He understands it very well.

These are your beliefs and if we're going to respect eachother, we're not going to push our beliefs on each other, right?

If we/you/I simply dispense with any portion of the Bible we believe is inaccurate we might as well throw it all out and simply do what feels right and believe what we will about anything we choose.

Historically, all the attempts to discredit the Bible have failed.
Fear not, my faith is as solid as it ever was.

No need to do that, and no one is dispensing with any portion of the bible. Only that there are certain truths that not even christians have an explanation for, and which consequently raise a question on some people's mind. One question though, how do you feel about the contents of the catholic bible called "the apocrypha," or the Jewish bible because it doesn't have a "New testament?"

 

[bwerb]

I'm sorry...continuing the hijack for a sec...the "trinitarian" viewpoint was not added in 1742 but was well in place during the council of Nicea in 323AD.

Also...just for the sake of fun and games...Christians should be cautious holding up the "10 Commandments" as an example of God's standards to live by...you are under a "New Covanant" and everything is permissable (although not everything is beneficial). The Law illustrates the depravity of all, but it is a step down the road to legalism to hold up the 10 Commandments as an outline of Christian behavior...part of Jesus point was that simply following the dictates of the law wasn't good enough, the state of the heart was far more important..."you have heard it said...but I say to you..."

Which brings it back to the discussion at hand here. The lack of respect we have in society is not completely a modern issue...it has been going on for as long as we've been on this planet. Laws and Dictates don't make people good, loving your neighbor as you love yourself is a step in the right direction.

 

[ShakaZulu]

Just look at the responses in a number of open threads and you tell me.........it went down the drain.

 

[Scubaguy62]

I'm sorry...continuing the hijack for a sec...the "trinitarian" viewpoint was not added in 1742 but was well in place during the council of Nicea in 323AD.

That darn theology professor!!!

As for the rest...well said bwerb!!!!!

 

[BIGSAGE136]

This has been an enlightening discussion and there have been many
very good ideas and thoughts put forward, but are we not deviating from
the intention of this thread concerning a discussion on society and respect?
It has become a theological discussion about religion and beliefs instead of
where our society as a whole is headed. I linked to this thread from issues we
have been seeing out at Joe’s quarry dealing with vandalism and lack of respect
for other people’s property. I hope we can resolve those issues.
I have great respect for all those that have posted here, we are lucky to have
so many brilliant minds in this community. I graciously bow out of this thread
holding to my commitments about refraining on discussions of religion and politics.
I am just happy to this point that things have remained relatively under control.
May God bless you, whichever religion or God you hold dear to your heart.
The Kingdom of God is within you, not in a stone and mortar structure built by man.
See you in the water!

I just encountered an example of why more and more people are becoming disenchanted, and therefore are falling short on the respect scale. I just came from voting. Where is my vote?
There is no card. No evidence. It is in cyber space. Now to many this is good because it saves time. Logical. But to the passionate I KNOW I've been hoodwinked.

IF it came down to a court battle in the most primitive of countries you would have a card that would prove YOUR VOTE
because you would have a DNA sample on the card. No matter how many years it took we could have a semblence of a FAIRNESS IN COURT.

Sometimes it hurts to have an imagination, and that what our kids have. They are spending that time killing people and wrecking cars in video arcades to relieve the tension. Hold me.

Mankind is like a fine fabric. Sometimes its hard for you to realize that all God wants us to do is to be good people where we stand. Nothing grandeous. Just a good person. Where I am. Today.

If we are'nt the fabric gets a run. Becomes ugly. Still useful but no longer good for its intended purpose.

We have already admitted in this thread that Society has broken down. Just don't get caught up in the run.

Its hard I know. Many a person has crossed my path.

We are in for a show down. Something, by all laws of math, is gonna fall.

Be good. Today.

 

[The Chairman]

This thread is a good example that one can discuss religion or politics, have differing opinions and still respect the beliefs and values of others with different opinions. If all threads on these subjects were as civil, there would be no need for the rules.

Amen

 

[The Chairman]

Almost all fights are a result of pride. Sometimes one person has it, and sometimes both do. We put a premium on "having your act together". Unfortunately, this means we like people who appear to have a lock on the truth. IOW, we tend to like and promote prideful people. No wonder we have so many fights!

This goes for "religion" or even "faith". Many people feel they have "arrived" and that it's about time some of you others got "your acts together" and agreed with them. These people tend to draw lines in the sand that their God did not intend to be drawn. This can be said about the Spanish Inquisition (which no one expects) or a jihad. It could also be applied to just about any discipline, including diving and technology.

If I evolved I have no purpose.

to me is just such a line in the sand. No where in the Bible does it speak against "evolution" but breathe that in most any congregation and you might just have a Holy War on your hands!

Say we set out to bake a cake... first we have to cultivate some flour, milk, eggs, yeast etc. Then we have to mix them all up and put them in an oven for a precise (not too long now) length of time and walla! We have a cake.

That the cake was made in stages does not negate the fact that WE made that cake, now does it? You might even say that the cake sorta "evolved" from some dirt in Iowa to a cake in Florida. But whether the cake believes it "was created" or "evolved" does not change the fact that there was a creator involved.

We should learn from the lowly cake in that I don't think the cake really cares HOW it was made. If it does, it shouldn't! It might care WHO made it as that would account for it's quality. Indeed, my wife can cook a cake far better than I can, for she has had lots of practice.

Personally, I believe in evolution and I am one of the most extreme fundamentalists you could ever hope to meet. I don't mind if you don't believe in evolution, because I don't think it amounts to a hill of beans in the outcome of your life. It might surprise you what I actually believe in, because I am almost certain you are making assumptions about me as you read. if you want to understand me better, check out www.DisciplesHeart.com.

But as for respect? Phillipians 2:2-7 epitomizes respect for me. If only I could attain that in my life.

 

[LeFlaneur]

DivingPreacher,

I thought what you wrote was thoughtful but a bit troubling.

The examples of "evolutionist thinking" you give don't represent the way any of us think. The "non-believers" you speak of don't really exist except as paper-tigers to support your point of view.

You see, people do not reject God because of any evidence against Him. People reject God because of their lifestyle.

Stating that we reject God because it conflicts with our (sinful?) lifestyles is a little off base to say the least. I mean I for one don't sit around saying, "Gee... I want to belive in God but I just love committing adultery too darn much!"

Religion is indeed tied to lifestyle in that the manner in which people worship has everything to do with culture. Unless, unbeknownst to me, the Catholics phoned the Hindus and said, "Okay you move to India and we'll take Italy."

Furthermore, I don't require evidence against the Tooth Fairy to reject it as a concept.

The world is full of non-believers who have strong values and well tuned moral compasses. They also feel that attibuting such values to God makes no sense. I too lament the loss of decency in our society. I accept the golden rule, I just don't agree on the source.

We all wonder about those four questions. The difference is that some of us allow them to remain questions while others want definite and unassailable answers.

I happen to believe that one of the reasons we're in this mess is that there's a couple billion too many of us on this planet. But that's another topic.