What do you see happening with the sport of diving?

[Rhone Man]

It is interesting talking about the "evolution" of the industry - it still looks and feels much the same as when I first stepped onto a dive boat back in 1984 (except we no longer drink beer during surface intervals).

I was at a conference the other day, and although they were talking about a different industry, it could easily have been about diving: they were saying that most people in the business were in it for love rather than money, and did not have grand ambitions to scale up or to build it and then sell out. As a result, businesses were highly fragmented, consolidation was difficult, margins were very flat, innovation was limited, and growth prospects were curtailed. I am sure there are exceptions, but as a 20,000 foot view of the industry as a whole, it felt pretty accurate. There will never be a nationally branded McScuba.

Certainly gave me some food for thought.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I think for a lot of us we want scuba to be more popular to validate what we're doing and to make us feel good and proud of our sport, along with the economic boost of new blood.
For those that rely on scuba as a business they'd like the money, and as participants we'd like the company and the recognition,.. and perhaps what the added money would bring...more shops, more boats, more resorts, competitive pricing, new technology and innovations in gear, etc.
None of that is possible without a steady and strong income source, and that's part of the problem we're seeing now.
It sort of needs to happen all at the same time for one to feed the other to get the engine running.

 

[Z Gear]

I think for a lot of us we want scuba to be more popular to validate what we're doing and to make us feel good and proud of our sport, along with the economic boost of new blood.
For those that rely on scuba as a business they'd like the money, and as participants we'd like the company and the recognition,.. and perhaps what the added money would bring...more shops, more boats, more resorts, competitive pricing, new technology and innovations in gear, etc.
None of that is possible without a steady and strong income source, and that's part of the problem we're seeing now.
It sort of needs to happen all at the same time for one to feed the other to get the engine running.

Which is the reality you and RJP are trying to point out. I agree and I am sure others will, its just makes sense. I just wish others could come forward with alternatives or suggestions that lead to the " Broadening the appeal towards Scuba". Its can be an interesting problem to solve if minds are up to the task. This is nothing more than a challenge if we really want to find out any answers we need to put our selves in the shoes of the public and know how they perceive and feel about scuba in general. I just simply ask them flat out where ever I encounter a conversation about Scuba. They could be asking me about what I have seen either after my dive or just in a random conversation, and I will always try and get their take on what they think about Scuba and how they feel about it. They usually tell me they don't think their ears can go down that far they will just burst. I get a chuckle at times from their reactions, but I take that opportunity to let them know that they need not have that concern or fear because equalizing of the ears is easier than they think. It really is painless and it is only because they have not been taught how to equalize that they have experienced this pain when they go down just a few feet. The bends is another fear factor that gets them to say not for me. They don't even really know much about it most of the time they just know its bad news, no "TANKS" I'll stick to golf. From what I gather fear is a big determining factor among many which discourages them from wanting to Scuba.

The other factor which I see is actually one which is easier to deal with the lure of adventure. There are young people out there eager to try something that will fill their appetite for adventure. They can overlook the fear branding aspect that others have because they are lured by the thrill being geared up and going down to explore. Checking out wrecks or perhaps daring to go on a night dive. To them this is a thrilling adventure. To us its just diving, that's what I mean about putting ourselves in their shoes to give us a better idea on how to reach different types of people.

When I shared those videos of the free diver, my motive for that was to show how this presents an "Image" for one to associate with, thus creates an appeal towards it ( I want that, or I want to do that). The free dive market has seen an explosion because there is a better awareness of that market. This I believe is due to the tons of spearfishing videos up on U tube which is the single most significant factor for driving this market to its current status.
This is a viral type of growth because the videos from free divers have lots of viewers and its just keeps growing and attracts more free divers. This is my point. This is the image that is presented and it is luring new comers to take part. That is the power of "Image".

Frank G
Z GEAR - Z Gear

 

[Diving Dubai]

The reason skiing has had so many developments is simple. It can be a competitive sport. It has world wide TV coverage with the olympics and the like. Heck my parents used to sit in front of the TV watching down hill skiing every winter during the season. They went outside of the UK once in their lives to Spain for a holiday so no interest in taking it up. Being a spot it has an appeal. With mass market coverage then sponsors arrive. These Sponsors want to associate with a brand that does well so money is applied and these technological advances in the name of having a few 1/100s of a second off times filter down.

Scuba gear has no need to evolve in that way - sure you could make wetsuits more slick etc but to what end? No-one is competing no-one can make a tie in with a winning brand so no rational to put big money into R&D?

Next Skiing is a fashion industry, people change their outfits each season so as not to be seen in last years clothes. Celebrities are paid to wear these clothes - people aspire to the clothes and buy them. Its easy to photograph someone on a slope (not necessarily in the act of skiing) and celebs want and need to be seen to market their own personal brand. Another win win. People also like to buy new things to go on holiday with - not in scuba. People are proud to wear old looking gear as a badge of honour - there is a stigma attached to shiny new gear as it marks you out as a newbie

I don't ski but I perceive that learning to ski is harder than learning to scuba - except the equipment seems more familiar. After all there are only some skis and some attractive looking clothes to get, where as Scuba gear looks so complicated and unattractive.

Look at Ski jackets - lots of styles lots of colours some recognisable brands some of which have celebrity tie ins

Scuba has Black wetsuits that no-one looks good in!

There are no recognisable brands - go to a store and you are face with brand names you don't recognise - unless you're into diving already. Only recently have some companies started to make gear focused on women - still generally black with a hit of a few colours.

Until the mainstream companies can get tie ins with some celebs or big names you won't get mass market appeal. For these big names to want to tie in the brand has to be doing something that they want to associate with and can get them exposure. Get an environmental program that someone can get behind, isn't radical and not seen in a bad light by the general public or the such like. Allow your celebs exposure and money will follow.

Learning to dive:

Only self starters or the very dedicated are going going to think that learning to dive in cold dark waters is a good idea. South Fl has proclaimed itself dive capital of the world (I would dispute that) but it does have nice beaches warm seas and is a place people aspire to visit. Likewise the rest of the world look to azure blue sea, white sandy beaches, some where exotic as a destination to go. It's there where they will learn to dive, and where the majority will continue to dive.

Go to Thailand as an example. Not fantastic diving (my opinion from my perspective of what I'm used too) The reports as literally wall to wall dive shops all selling gear and services - and its seasonal. Not only that its full of people diving or wanting to dive. It's perceived as an exotic destination. Unlike skiing you can't get you kids involved until they are 12 - by which time the 12 year old would rather be on their computer than on holiday with mum and dad.

Some resorts have marketed themselves as very high end. They have great reefs and luxury accommodation with big big prices, yet they are full. The same with some liveaboards. they dive the same sites as the cheaper alternatives yet they can be book up well in advance because some people want to spend more and get something different perhaps with fewer divers and more exclusive same way some people look to have something more lower end for their budget

Every time someone comes on SB looking for advice to go become an instructor on a years intern they negative opinions. Yes I don't agree with zero to hero, I think the training should be longer (OW over a week something like learning to ski at a resort). Young people want something aspirational, they don't care they don't earn a living, they are on a gap year, wanting to explore, and spread their wings. a few will want the life of a beach bum (don't we all) they don't have the need for money for a house, car or kids - they want a lifestyle - the same as people who go to be ski guides each season - ski, drink, get laid. A 20s guy as a ski guide certainly has more opportunity surrounded by 30s + ladies who fancy a toy boy than they would as a DM.


Make training more accessible. Who wants to go on vacation and do exams? Make training better - it would be nice if you could after 1 week turn out student with GUE like buoyancy etc. However GUE with its "you will all look the same way and wear the same equipment" method won't wash. People want to have some individuality and not all look the same.

People like to aspire to things, whether its the clothes you choose to wear, the brand of car you drive, a watch, perfume, neighbourhood to live in, people do aspire. You need to have something for people to aspire too. I'm certain that if you made a BCD, reg set and fins etc in pretty colours put a high end price on them with a label of Porsche design for instance people would pay money to look different even if it didn't function differently to Scuba Pro or Aqualung etc etc.

Is a Rolex better than a swatch, is a BMW better than a Ford, are Callaway clubs really better than Mizumo etc etc. Some people want to flash Bling some people don't. Choice!

Branding:

Thinking of wings: What differs a Halcyon from an Apex, from an OMS from a Dive Rite etc etc. Certainly there are some technical differences for sure but apart from OMS which have different colours they all look pretty much the same? Where are the different colours (even if you buy a zip on cover) Where is the huge branding on the back with a catchy strap line? No they are all typically black and

When it's on the wearers back no one can really distinguish brand A from B? I know people who have brought OMS wings just because they can get a colour they like. Some girls like pink - and yes OMS do a pink wing, one of my friends has one and is always the subject of attention and a talking point. My wife (not a pink wing) has just brought pink webbing for her win, she has a pink hose on her primary, she used to have Aqualung sling shots that had some pink, If her Dive Rite fins came in pink she'd buy them. She wants to look different

Didn't people get excited when Scuba pro made a limited edition of different coloured Jet fins?

Indeed fins are a great example. Forget Paddle vs Split people are drawn to a set that looks great. Yes sure certain fins are better than others for certain types of diving but when the majority of people go to a LDS they are drawn to the colour or visual style

If you want a wetsuit you're limited to the thickness and maybe if you're lucky brand A may have a little colour you like. You certainly can't for instance buy an Aqualung 3mm in anything other than black with a bit of blue - if you want some yellow you may need to get a cressie for instance.

Frankey there is no choice. With the exception of fins pretty much everyone looks the same because there is no choice. Go to a ski shop and look at the choice and see the difference.


I bet if Eric could chrome or even gold plate his freedom Plate - have differing webbing colours - coloured D-rings with say By Victoria Beckham etched on it. Placed in NYC or London with a $2500+ price tag they'd be sold and while in lesser volume he's make more money with the unit margin being a lot greater.

(BTW if it does happen I want my cut)

 

[Phantom Menace]

Interesting thread. My perspective is that of a longterm SCUBA Diver (first certified at the age of 14 which was 34 years ago although my highest SCUBA qualification is PADI Rescue) with hundreds of SCUBA dives round the coast of New Zealand and a few over seas. I did years of SCUBA and snorkelling to about a max of 66 ft / 20m then tried my hand at a little more free diving and spearfishing around 5 years ago.

My comments are intended to portray my own experience / perspective on why free diving is taking off now.

The general lack of gear, cheaper trips (mostly from private boats), length of time I can spend in the water (when compared to recreational SCUBA), streamlined ease of movement, and also the element of physical challenge etc. pretty much got me hooked on breath hold diving. I am hooked to the extent that I haven't strapped a tank on my back for 4 years and have actually sold my tanks. Almost 2 years ago I joined a free diving club and have seen it go through huge growth since then. We have had a lot of people come and try our induction program and many stay on as active members. Sitting in the spa pool after training tonight I chatted to several new and not so new members and they were loving the challenge and learning curve they were going through. The club is very supportive with a huge range of abilities with senior members sharing knowledge, stories and coaching the new folk. People have their own goals to achieve. These vary from person to person including:

• increased bottom time for spearfishing
• better able to cope when surfing and being held down by a big wave
• a bit of extra depth for spearfishing
• keeping up with their boyfriend / girlfriend
• learning their own physical capability
• making that depth / time / distance target
• getting/ keeping fit
• going on the occasional club trip and being able to comfortably free dive to a wreck (I am planning a couple of club trips where for one you will need to be comfortable at 25m and for another 25m is good but 35m - 40m is better).

The club is very safety focussed and the guys that stay on very much appreciate this - they get to push their own boundaries in an environment where the risk is managed.

In addition the quality of free diving and spearfishing gear available has improved a lot in the last 15 years. Open cell suits are way more comfortable and warm, fins much better and spearguns better quality. As a New Zealander we also have the added bonus that several of our national free diving records are world records and we have some divers in the top 5 or 10 in the world.

At the age of 48 I am not an early 20s guy anymore but I have learnt a lot with the club and people seem to consider me as one of the senior members (and not just in age). Free diving is not just a young persons thing but it does have that physical challenge to it and that "extreme" tag - which I actually think is not necessarily warranted.

 

[Subcooled]

look at freediving.. that industry is experiencing tremendous growth.

Because at some point the numerous incremental certifications, and the associated cost, starts to suck big time. And then we have the security nerds of SCUBA (please let me die happy).

 

[rx7diver]

I, personally, would be interested to learn what people would prefer happen to recreational scuba—you know, the obvious follow-up question to the op.

I think for a lot of us we want scuba to be more popular to validate what we're doing and to make us feel good and proud of our sport, along with the economic boost of new blood.
For those that rely on scuba as a business they'd like the money, and as participants we'd like the company and the recognition,.. and perhaps what the added money would bring...more shops, more boats, more resorts, competitive pricing, new technology and innovations in gear, etc.
None of that is possible without a steady and strong income source, and that's part of the problem we're seeing now.
It sort of needs to happen all at the same time for one to feed the other to get the engine running.

Which is the reality you and RJP are trying to point out. I agree and I am sure others will, its just makes sense.

This thread appears in the Basic Scuba forum, so let me pose this question from the perspective of a recreational scuba diver (rather than as someone who earns income from scuba, whether as an instructor, or a shop owner, or a charter boat owner, or a supplier, or an investor, etc.).

With all due respect, why should a rec scuba diver even care if recreational scuba becomes more popular, or if the scuba "industry" grows? So long as a rec scuba diver can get his/her tanks filled and equipment serviced and find additional training and make additional equipment purchases whenever desired or required, isn't this enough (to him/her)? Divers I personally know couldn't care less about "validating" their interest in scuba diving, nor about "feeling good/better and/or proud/prouder" of scuba diving.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[Z Gear]

If Scuba can become more popular the Rec diver can appreciate the lower prices in products as well services or travel destinations. The competitive nature and the volume of increase in goods and services in an industry results in more practical cost effective opportunities for the consumer. Not to mention innovation and larger selection.

Frank G
zGear.com

 

[widget]

This thread appears in the Basic Scuba forum, so let me pose this question from the perspective of a recreational scuba diver (rather than as someone who earns income from scuba, whether as an instructor, or a shop owner, or a charter boat owner, or a supplier, or an investor, etc.).

With all due respect, why should a rec scuba diver even care if recreational scuba becomes more popular, or if the scuba "industry" grows? So long as a rec scuba diver can get his/her tanks filled and equipment serviced and find additional training and make additional equipment purchases whenever desired or required, isn't this enough (to him/her)? Divers I personally know couldn't care less about "validating" their interest in scuba diving, nor about "feeling good/better and/or proud/prouder" of scuba diving.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

Indeed, they probably dont, as you say its of no real issue to them as long as their needs are met (ie)Air, repairs, training, boat availability etc.

I think the problem is probably in most sectors of the diving economy, many divers feel their needs are not been met, (ie) its too difficult / costly / time consuming or whatever to do, so they simply look elsewhere.

Most people will agree the attrition rate in Scuba is horrendous, yes there are other factors but when it becomes a "pain in the butt" to source air, repairs, equipment most folk will just decide the returns are not worth the investment and so the attrition rate grows.

---------- Post added June 15th, 2015 at 06:26 PM ----------

If Scuba can become more popular the Rec diver can appreciate the lower prices in products as well services or travel destinations. The competitive nature and the volume of increase in goods and services in an industry results in more practical cost effective opportunities for the consumer. Not to mention innovation and larger selection.

Frank G
zGear.com

Yes, in a perfect world I would agree, but the numbers even when Scuba was in its growth phase in the late 90's were never even close enough to make equipment more cost effectively, the numbers are just way too small.

We see it all over, only a small number of the really major brands can afford to have a completely proprietary product catalog, and some of them dont even do it on all lines either,... as for the rest, its not feasible, and many are simply forced to catalog the same mass produced generic mask, snorkel, fins, knife etc as their competitor - maybe there are small colour changes but in many instances they dont even bother with that anymore, its simply a mass produced mask or (insert product here) with a different branding.

Its understandable, the numbers are too small and the costs too high but I always chuckle when I go through some equipment catalogs and see the same, say mask, in 4 different catalogs all claiming different characteristics.

Sign of the times unfortunately.

 

[TSandM]

Why should a recreational diver care about whether the industry grows? Here's why . . . I got the news yesterday, which was expected, that the shop where I got certified is closing its doors. Two years ago, the shop where we got our fills closed, because the owner moved away. A year before that, the shop where we got our fills failed and closed. We now have no good options for gas near us. We have nowhere to run to to pick up something that just broke, or we can't find.

In the last ten years, I can count at least five dive shops in the region that have closed. We have also lost a number of dive sites, either to landowners closing access, or because the structure which made the site interesting has been removed. Still, our shop, which stopped advertising altogether about five years ago, had enough walk-in and word of mouth business to run classes every month. Who knows how it would have gone, if they had made themselves known?

I really don't buy the "the costs of entry are too high" argument. I participate in another sport where the entry and ongoing costs are monstrously higher, and which is thriving. My horse trainer rides mountain bikes, which cost thousands of dollars to buy, and her sport isn't hurting, either.

I can see why someone who lives in a landlocked state might decide not to take up a sport that you have to get on an airplane to do. But where shore diving is abundant and quite good, if people aren't taking up the sport, we aren't doing a good job of communicating why they should.