Wall dive advice - low experience diver

[Ozwald]

My advice. Don't do it. Too many things can go wrong. As an OW diver your recommended depth limit is 60 ft. When was the last time you were there? I don't know Stewart Cove's at all other than by reputation but I would not dive with any op that would take a new diver with your level of experience on a wall dive. Too many things can go wrong. If you want to know what they are read this thread:http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

I wrote it. It was inspired by an incident in Grand Cayman where a newly certed diver was supposed to under the supervision of a guide.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/283416-diver-death-cayman.html

Find some dives with a hard bottom at less than your recommended limit and hire an instructor or guide. I do not want to ruin your fun. I want to see you enjoy the time in the water and have fun. Your refresher was a good idea but I can probably guarantee you based on you not knowing what weight you will need in salt water did not prep you for a dive where there are likely to be currents, may be upwellings, and downwellings. It would not be fair to put anyone less than a DM or instructor you paid for, in a position as your buddy on a dive like this. Operators have no business taking OW divers to sites where a mistake could result in them dropping below the recommended OW limits unless it;s for a class or with an instructor who is FULLY aware of the diver's skills and ablilities. This hits too close to home for everything that I researched and resulted in the Who is Responsbile thread, my presentation on The Failure of the Buddy System, and my new book. It all came out of events like this. A 58 yr old newly certed OW diver that hit 342 feet before making a 302 ft ascent in less than two minutes changed my outlook and philosophy on diving and dive training forever. He was following a guide and diving in a herd with no real buddy.

I have to agree....tons to see aside from the wall. They must offer something that would be more in your "comfort zone" no?

 

[ev780]

OMG This is the thread of death!!!

I have dove with Stuart Cove's on three seperate trips. They are repuatable and safe. Cattle boats to be sure but a good operation. The "wall" dives are not that big of a deal. Nothing like Grand Turk or Bloddy Bay. You have plenty of vis no current and lots of other divers for visual reference.

Mind your bouyancy, relax and have a good time!!! You are certified, tuned up and ready to roll. Relax. It's just diving.

Then again you might sink and drown. But better to die while you are living than live when you are dead!!!

 

[vladimir]

OMG This is the thread of death!!!

I have dove with Stuart Cove's on three seperate trips. They are repuatable and safe. Cattle boats to be sure but a good operation. The "wall" dives are not that big of a deal. Nothing like Grand Turk or Bloddy Bay. You have plenty of vis no current and lots of other divers for visual reference.

Mind your bouyancy, relax and have a good time!!! You are certified, tuned up and ready to roll. Relax. It's just diving.

Then again you might sink and drown. But better to die while you are living than live when you are dead!!!

What are you OMG-ing about? Yes, the OP is certified, 5 years ago. He's done 2 dives since, over a year ago. His next dive is a wall dive, which he's never done, and he is asking a sensible question: is there anything I need to know? He'd be an idiot not to ask it, at least of himself.

 

[Den7]

Nope. Still a bottom below your recommended limits. Unless a dedicated Dm or Instructor is assigned to you it is not a good idea. Lots of "we do this all the time" or "trust me" dives have scared the crap out of people or at worst killed them. It says nothing about needing an AOW or documented dives below OW limits to do this. Just follow our DM. WOuld you even have enough air to do 80 ft for 30 minutes? You'd need to know your SAC rate to determine that. What if you burn through your air and are at 750 psi 20 minutes into the dive? Is the DM going to bring the whole group up or just send you and your buddy up? What if your buddy does not want to go up? You ok with surfacing alone? Again a few shallow dives with a hard bottom less than 60 ft is what I'd require you to do if I was leading the dives. In fact I'd make you do a skills eval in shallow water, make sure you knew how to set your weights, and then checked out your buddy skills. I would not consider taking a new diver I did not know on any wall or frankly any dive without checking them out first. Especially with so little actual experience.

Good caution. I am not an expert but this is actually almost the first thing I noticed when even taking my very first diving class (practice part) as well. I really had to put my foot down by telling them something like, "Hey, you are not training me to be a super-duper navy diver seal or something! We are not in the army here so what's with the rush and all? I am here to take it easy, relax, and enjoy my own pace where safety is supposed to be taken TOP priority and above all!" In fact, I think about 8 DMs and ops out of 10 I met were "trust me", "no worries", "we do it all the time", and "make sure you simply follow your gide" etc. type. I always seemed to pull them back and face them down a little as it was my safey and MY life after all. If it was impossible to do it in my comfort zone and my abilities limits then I refused to dive.

Any ideas on what does a statistical data say on carelessness in diving and incidents / accidents induced because of that? I assume it must have been really gone off-scale marking it to be the mian cause?

By the way I wouldn't mind taking a couple of your classes Jim as I do share your point of you and a good diver always keeps on learning as they say. Where do you teach?

 

[RTee]

Late 2010 I went diving to Cozumel with Dressel Divers. One of the many things I appreciated from that organization was the fact that their site very specifically states that unless you are a very experience diver with recent dives, your first dive with that organization will not be a wall dive...

 

[paddler3d]

Wall dives. Love them. There are a lot of wall dives where the drop off starts at 60fsw. You can stay at the edge. Two years ago a buddy and I did a drift dive along a wall off of Bimini where it went from 100fsw to 2500fsw. Sheer vertical cliff. Amazing.

Anyway, what everyone seems to forget when it happens to them is that sometimes you can have vertical currents at walls, upwellings and downwellings. If you get stuck in one, your instinct is to stay near the wall, which is ass backwards. The current will be strongest closest to the wall. Swim away from the wall and the current will be less.

Good luck!

 

[DevonDiver]

Then again you might sink and drown. But better to die while you are living than live when you are dead!!!

Funny... the only people I hear utter crass nonsense like this tend to be people who've never had to confront their own mortality in harm's way...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Good caution. I am not an expert but this is actually almost the first thing I noticed when even taking my very first diving class (practice part) as well. I really had to put my foot down by telling them something like, "Hey, you are not training me to be a super-duper navy diver seal or something! We are not in the army here so what's with the rush and all? I am here to take it easy, relax, and enjoy my own pace where safety is supposed to be taken TOP priority and above all!" In fact, I think about 8 DMs and ops out of 10 I met were "trust me", "no worries", "we do it all the time", and "make sure you simply follow your gide" etc. type. I always seemed to pull them back and face them down a little as it was my safey and MY life after all. If it was impossible to do it in my comfort zone and my abilities limits then I refused to dive.

Any ideas on what does a statistical data say on carelessness in diving and incidents / accidents induced because of that? I assume it must have been really gone off-scale marking it to be the mian cause?

By the way I wouldn't mind taking a couple of your classes Jim as I do share your point of you and a good diver always keeps on learning as they say. Where do you teach?

I teach in Pennsylvania just south of Pittsburgh. I am also available to travel to you. Class tuition is no more. Just add in travel expenses and we are good to go!

 

[tlehman]

Thanks for all the input, folks. My plan is shallower morning dives with hard bottoms and see how I feel about the rest for the afternoon dives. A local DM from this community has graciously offered to buddy with me for these dives, so I'm good to go.

 

[Dantheengineer]

I certainly concede the possibility of updraft/downdraft current. At least in theory, since in over a thousand dives (admittedly, largely unlogged) mostly performed along this stretch of wall and actually with Stuart Coves, i can't say i've experienced it. At least not to any discernible degree.
(Before reading this thread, i simply wouldn't have considered it as a potential danger. So, thank you!)

There is usually a very slight current along the face but not up and down.

There are days when you do get current. Tiring and annoying but not life threatening. The boat Captain will simply call it from the way the deco lines moving and move to another site.

Of Topic and I know little of Hydro-dynamics but could the geography of this trench and the fact that it's closed at one end and/or narrow (ish) at this point be the reason for no vertical current?