Virginian diver dead at 190 feet - Roaring River State Park, Missouri

[formernuke]

Ok I don't know the sidewinder at all and I'm not cave diver.

But I'm trying to wrap my head around some things. For both this and Gus

For 190 foot dice on my unit I would have a diluent of 15% 02 and a 02 bottle connected to the unit.

For bailout I would have a 21 bottle and a 50 bottle.

At no time during the dive would I switch my diluent bottle, why would I need to?

So why was gus switching diluent? As for this why would someone have a 24 bottle at all?

 

[Manatee Diver]

So why was gus switching diluent?

Gus's unit wasn't setup to take dil from the side he had his trimix on. Normally in cave diving both sides have the same dil/bo, this isn't an issue. The KISS Team's standard setup was trimix dil/BO on one side, and air on the other as a shallow BO and suit gas. Which means you need to have the dil MAV on the particular side that the trimix dil would be on.

Some are reporting that Gus came up with the idea of feeding trimix dil from his reg into the loop.

As for this why would someone have a 24 bottle at all?

The only person that can definitively answer that is dead.

 

[berndo]

Which means you need to have the dil MAV on the particular side that the trimix dil would be on.

I have not used the SW but you should be able to plug in gas from either sidemount tank. You just need the hose to be long enough. The way Gus explained it in the video made little sense. IIRC grantctobin has addressed this a few pages back.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

I think @stuartv and @beldridg give a credible explanation of what might have happened. I base my opinion on the fact that he has had a 26% in his tanks while labeled them 24% and used 24% on his dive computer. I think it was not an analyzing error or his unintentional mistake. I think he did that on purpose to dive a conservative setting vs what he really had in tanks, to give himself extra buffor of security at deco (his computer would have showed him more deco obligation as he in reality had to do, because his computer was thinking he is inhaling more Nitrogen.) That is a common practice in OC if the depth of the dive presents no danger of pO2 being the curtailing factor of such practice. Therefore one has to ask - would he do both, consciously plan a gas too hot for his intended dive AND trick his computer to allow him go even deeper on that gas than he should?

I would not consider this fact. Did the analyzing of his cylinders post-incident have the analyzer properly calibrated? To assume it was is a mistake, just as to assume the diver had his calibrated properly would also be a mistake. Therefore, not a fact but still speculation based on some evidence.

If I am correct, I believe Gareth Locke even mentioned this in the HF evaluation of this incident. We need to be careful what we consider fact as it is easy to overlook the many possible errors that can occur and lead us to false assumptions based on what COULD be faulty evidence.

The only fact is, we just don't know.

Also, I am not sure where you dive and who you dive with but nowhere I have been is it common practice to lie to your computer. If he wanted to be extra conservative, all he had to do was to adjust his GF on the computer. If you were on my team and I find out you were lying to the computer for "an extra buffer of security" it would be the last time we went diving together.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I would not consider this fact. Did the analyzing of his cylinders post-incident have the analyzer properly calibrated? To assume it was is a mistake, just as to assume the diver had his calibrated properly would also be a mistake. Therefore, not a fact but still speculation based on some evidence.

Why assume any calibration errors at all? We are talking devices that are good +/- 1%. My Palm O2 and my Divesoft He/O2 will show slightly different oxygen contents.

Based on the fact that a non-helium mix was inputted in his computer, he dove the wrong mix to that depth. Whether he knowingly did so or simply forgot to switch to deeper trimix is the only real question up for debate. Based on team input the dive to 200ft was planned, so it would've made little sense to bring a nitrox dil with him. So I lean to knowingly, but he isn't here to answer that question.

The real question is how to prevent this in the future. I believe it has been suggested that someone other than the diver also signs off on the analysis. And pre-dive buddy checks that your gas is set correctly, would also prevent unknowingly bringing the wrong gas.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

Why assume any calibration errors at all? We are talking devices that are good +/- 1%. My Palm O2 and my Divesoft He/O2 will show slightly different oxygen contents.

Based on the fact that a non-helium mix was inputted in his computer, he dove the wrong mix to that depth. Whether he knowingly did so or simply forgot to switch to deeper trimix is the only real question up for debate. Based on team input the dive to 200ft was planned, so it would've made little sense to bring a nitrox dil with him. So I lean to knowingly, but he isn't here to answer that question.

The real question is how to prevent this in the future. I believe it has been suggested that someone other than the diver also signs off on the analysis. And pre-dive buddy checks that your gas is set correctly, would also prevent unknowingly bringing the wrong gas.

I never assumed calibration errors. Please re-read what I wrote. I was asking questions that Mr. Human Factors himself brought up in his post on this incident.

 

[Hiszpan]

Also, I am not sure where you dive and who you dive with but nowhere I have been is it common practice to lie to your computer. If he wanted to be extra conservative, all he had to do was to adjust his GF on the computer. If you were on my team and I find out you were lying to the computer for "an extra buffer of security" it would be the last time we went diving together.

Diving nitrox on an air computer

I was told that it is safer to dive using nitrox on an air computer rather than a nitrox computer. Is that true. If so it that always the case?

scubaboard.com

 

[grantctobin]

Diving nitrox on an air computer

I was told that it is safer to dive using nitrox on an air computer rather than a nitrox computer. Is that true. If so it that always the case?

scubaboard.com

A 21 year old thread with most recent response of 16 year old.

 

[berndo]

I was asking questions that Mr. Human Factors himself brought up in his post on this incident.

People seem to bring HF up alot recently. I don't think his breakdowns are wrong and I like to read his stuff but don't think it's all that helpful either. He tends to pile up a bunch of factors that have possibly contributed to a bad outcome, fair enough, but IMHO neglects to hammer down on core issues that actually cause the accidents. He also keeps bringing up stuff we supposedly only know in hindsight, even though some of these things are well known for a very long time, it's just that people knowingly, blatently and deliberately ignore things.

 

[rjack321]

Ah the comeback of someone who can not refute the point and resorts to an ad hominem attack instead.

On a real dive answer is 0, but choosing a gas is an academic exercise done well before you get in the water so let me know how that’s relevant.

As far as good reasons to choose weak nitrox Is it the fact that it’s more narcotic, or had a higher gas density that makes it a good choice?

But I could be wrong so what are some of the good reasons to choose it as your bailout gas?

Shrugs I can't control you feeling attacked but seriously there's more to BO planning than academics.