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UTD Z+, Razor BAT or Xdeep Stealth 2.0

Discussion in 'Sidemount Diving' started by Pao, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    9,054
    2,901
    113
    Ok well I'm not sure why SM appeals to you. Its actually a bit of a pain to gear up on a slippy shore for instance. Or climb a boat ladder. Not all boats can accomodate you de-gearing in the water next to them. Or stagger across a boat deck from the benches to the door to the water. Humans quite naturally carry a tank(s) like a backpack. 90+ lbs of weight slung under the arms - not so natural.
     
  2. SangP

    SangP Loggerhead Turtle

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    You do realize that this is the sm section right lol?
     
  3. ColdH2O

    ColdH2O Nassau Grouper

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    And....... here comes the criticism for wanting to dive SM. I just do not see how it is that much more cumbersome than BM doubles, I know everyone has an opinion but this is exactly why I hesitated to answer the question in the first place. My mind is already made up, I will dive SM and if it is a pain then so be it, I guess I will learn the hard way.
     
  4. SangP

    SangP Loggerhead Turtle

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    I agree, seldom do I find that a boat operator that would insist that you dive bm or won't allow you some leeway when diving with them. More often then not a operator would go out of their way to assist you.

    Diving from shore... I see no negatives vs backmount. You don't have to lug twin tanks all the way, you can pick one at a time. You don't need a raised platform to mount and dismount. Plus you don't need to only have din valves but can use any valve you find.
     
  5. kundalinichi

    kundalinichi Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location:
    67
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    Now that I've got a few good dives on my z-system, pretty sure I'lll also be sticking with it for all dives untill Cave classes.
     

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  6. Kevrumbo

    Kevrumbo Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: South Santa Monica Bay/Los Angeles California, USA
    5,659
    1,345
    113
    Back on topic:
    Okay . . .after five days here on Santo Vanuatu doing shore dives on the SS President Coolidge, back kicking on the surface 100 meters to the mid-wreck buoy with two AL80's attached is too much for the 9kg/20lb Z-trim wing: I could not comfortably stay afloat on the surface (at depth it's completely adequate though). Thank goodness the divesite does not have any appreciable surf or swell conditions, else I would have had to go breath on my long hose regulator and sortie out to the wreck penetration site submerged.

    I'm still going to retain the Z-trim, and not considering an upgrade to the larger Z-plus 23kg/50lb wing just yet: the only time I use Z-system technical double tank sidemount is for tropical wreck diving --skinsuit with a 2mil hooded vest and no lead weights/belt needed-- Z-trim wing is enough to support me at depth with two AL80's & two AL40's.
     
  7. nwbrewer

    nwbrewer Barracuda

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Woodinville, Wa
    291
    5
    18
    I'm not sure Richard is really criticizing you, more of just sharing his experience (unlike many who will criticize the decision to go SM without having actually done it). I have ~35 dives in SM now, and I have to say, for shore dives in Puget Sound, the idea of carrying both tanks separately to the water and gearing up at the waters edge is kind of a joke (I tried it a few different ways). Trying to just clip a HP100 on by lifting the tank up to your side and clipping it on is pretty awkward/hard on your back. Trying to put the tanks on in the water is pretty laughable, as trying to manage putting on fins and both tanks in even mild wave action and the crappy vis we have in the shallows makes it hard to keep track of everything. So, I wind up strapping the tanks on at the car and walking them down to the water. I don't know that it's more awkward to carry them on my sides than on my back, but it's certainly not easier.

    All that being said, as much as it's a PITA on the surface, once I'm in the water I love it, so I'll probably keep the rig around. But for a quick shore dive, nothing beats the simplicity of just throwing on a single HP 100 and hoping in the water. It's all just diving, dive how you like, but beware of the different challenges that each type of rig brings.

    I think I missed it above, what rig are you diving?

    If you ever get down to the N. Seattle area let me know I'd be glad to go for a dive with ya.

    Jake
     
  8. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    9,054
    2,901
    113
    I have about 40 local SM cold water dives and 10 more in North FL (which was much easier in part due to bare hands. Like I said, I have both a Razor and a Hollis SMS100. I used the Hollis last night with 2 stages for practice. Was also the first time in salt water. Was actually ok despite having some gear failures - one of my lower stage clips was stuck and I ripped a mouthpiece off a stage reg.

    The biggest problem was leaving the stage tanks in fairly deep water because I decided to walk my main SM tanks (hp100s) in and put them on standing in the water, then attach the 80 stages. I brought a leash and clipped the 2 al80s together and there wasn't much surge to bang them around. I was fortunately able to stand and didn't lose anything in the dark. I have found having butterfly clips for the tank neck clips is a huge help for gearing up while standing. I use standard boltsnaps on the lower butt end clips.

    But why? I only wanted to know what your goals were. I was curious about what rig or system you might choose based on what those dives were. I probably have about 150 dives on the island, Port Hardy, Nanaimo, Saanich, Gulf Islands, and some of the divable caves. Sidemount is (or would have been) perfect for some of these and sucks for others.

    Only now I realize you seem to have no justification for choosing sidemount at all (compared to backmount, a SCR, CCR or any other diving tool).
     
  9. JamesK

    JamesK Solo Diver

    # of Dives:
    Location: SW Florida
    3,283
    1,047
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    What were you diving that it made it hard to stay one the surface with twin 80's? I have never had a problem with mine keeping me afloat in that setup. Granted I only need 2 pounds of weight.

    ---------- Post added December 6th, 2012 at 04:52 PM ----------

    I am becoming more and more intrigued by this system every time I look at it. I really want to give it a try. I am seriously considering selling my UTD setup so I can get this. The harness setup is just so slick. I know you have said you use it with steels and a dry suit. I dive Faber 85's and AL80 stages with AL40 deco bottles. I use at most 3 pounds of weight. What is the lift of this wing?
     
  10. Kevrumbo

    Kevrumbo Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: South Santa Monica Bay/Los Angeles California, USA
    5,659
    1,345
    113
    Today was rain squall and 2-4' swells, body mass negatively buoyant to begin with at 70kg/170cm . . .and just now discovered Z-trim OPV is leaking/releasing gas from wing to further complicate & make things more difficult (my DiveRite battery charger also is dead -so my primary can LED light batteries will be drained in a few days, and I left the spare Halcyon EOS LED can light as well as conventional BP/W gear in Chuuk).:shakehead:

    Just completed a 57m max depth dive (42m ave for 12min; MDL), after that long 100m surface swim against swells & current --with only one AL80 and my dive guide towing my other AL80-- finally clipping & plugging the remaining tank in, before dropping down on the wreck.
     

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