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UTD Z+, Razor BAT or Xdeep Stealth 2.0

Discussion in 'Sidemount Diving' started by Pao, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Pao

    Pao Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manila, Philippines
    I presently use a Z-trim. I'm looking to get a higher capacity sidemount wing for diving 2 Al80 cylinders and possibly deco bottles in the near future. I like the modular harness/wing system. I am presently looking at the 3 wings. Any recommendations, comments or suggestions?


  2. rongoodman

    rongoodman ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Albany, NY
    I've read that the Stealth wing has a lower profile than the Razor when inflated, but I haven't seen one yet. I'll be taking a look on my next trip to Playa in November.
  3. Kevrumbo

    Kevrumbo Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: South Santa Monica Bay/Los Angeles California, USA
    I'll be using the Z-trim 9kg/20lbs wing again for Chuuk Lagoon 5-16 Oct; last year's first time trial with the Z-system, buoyancy at depth with two AL80's and two AL30's deco bottles was excellent --perfect & easy horizontal trim & hover (1mm skinsuit with a 2mm hooded vest and no added extra lead/weightbelt needed).

    The only problem I had was on the surface at the beginning of the dive with the two full AL80's & AL30 deco bottles: the Z-trim/20lbs wing could not float me comfortably on top of the water. . . (not really the fault of the Z-trim since its buoyancy is designed to provide lift at your lower back).

    I would recommend staying with the Z-trim, and if need be --consider a tropical drysuit like a DUI 30/30 for thermal comfort and to augment surface buoyancy as well.

    [Add: the AL80's were the standard S80 --not the neutral buoyancy when empty, heavier "compact" C80 AL80]
    Scott L likes this.
  4. Pao

    Pao Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manila, Philippines
    No problem underwater. Its at the surface when the waves start rolling.
  5. decompression

    decompression Instructor...seriously...

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
    I have the z trim for AL 80s, the z+ is very good for open water and multi tanks but I really like the lift/size of the alpha/delta wing. It's right in the middle of both wings for lift, still very streamlined and good for 2 steel 120s and a AL40 deco bottle. I think I'd would work great for multi AL bottles.
  6. tiki_bill

    tiki_bill Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Chicago
    I've been pondering the same question lately. I dive a Razor which I love, but I really don't need a large wing for open water with two al 80's. I've been liking the looks of the Stealth and smaller UTD Z trim. However for cave in drysuit with stages, I'll keep my batwing.
  7. GAdiver

    GAdiver Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Georgia
    You can use the SMS50 with two faber hp80s and one al40 with a drysuit (I haven't tried it but I assume it will work with a small can light and small wreck reel) but I have also been looking at the X-deep. I've heard the razor BAT wing adds a good bit of drag while inflated.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  8. tech_frog

    tech_frog Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Kingston, UK
    Hi guys, I think I can tell that had them all (didn't try Hollis SMS 50)... just not so long time ago sold nomad and Razor to buy new Stealth 2.0
    Razor was my favorite until I got xdeep system. I dive LP 108 Faber.
    Got it from tecdivegear.com. So far I'm amazed by simplicity, quality and ease of making adjustments, changes etc.
    I have it short time but like it more and more after every dive. Its definitely something that I'm planning to stay with for a while.

    rongoodman - you don't have to go to Playa to check it out, we're diving Stealth at Dutch last few weeks, also Sebastian from tec dive gear is meeting some groups there all the time.

    ---------- Post Merged at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:11 PM ----------

    Here is some good picture (from tec dive gear facebook page) showing SMS Hollis 50 vs. Stealth 2.0 by xDeep
    Hollis provides 23lbs versus Stealth 2.0 37lbs of buoyancy, still Stealth being much more cleaner and compact.

    xDeep vs Hollis sidemount system.jpg
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  9. Karl_H

    Karl_H DIR Practitioner

    I’m a big fan of the Z-Trim wing but surface buoyancy does seem to be an issue for a lot of people, at the start of the dive this is less of an issue – It’s more at the end of the dive people get worried. If surface buoyancy is an issue at the end of a dive it can normally be solved by letting the tanks hang – i.e. removing the bungee attachment.

    This is best done while still underwater, I normally remove the long hose, coil it and clip it to a small bungee around the tank neck before surfacing, it’s also easy to remove the necklace from the primary (left) tank and untie the bungee attachment while still 1-2m underwater, hold the tank in place until your at the surface, inflate then pop the LPI connection and let the tank hang – this keeps both tanks in the water and therefore neutral or positively buoyant so all the BC lift is used for you, not holding tanks above the waterline.

    If this still isn’t enough you can always use a DSMB on the dive and use it for additional support at the surface, or even add a small MSR style bladder under the Z-Trim. The Z-plus or Alpha/Delta would be better for the surface but my is that it doesn’t work as well for trim, especially when lightly loaded with air as it moves around a lot. The razor BAT wing has the same issue, especially as there are no baffles in the wing itself.

    I don’t have any experience with the XDeep Stealth BC but it looks nice. My first reaction was that it was just another variation on the MSR hydration pack like the Bat wing, but on closer inspection it looks very promising. It could be the best option out there right now as the workmanship looks top quality but it’s hard to say without trying one out – looks like it could be my next purchase!

    Given your current equipment I’d suggest using the tank hang or additional buoyancy device as a first instance, obviously the surface is important but at the same time you don’t want to give yourself more problems to solve one problem.

    Pao likes this.
  10. Pao

    Pao Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manila, Philippines
    Thanks Karl! Do post your experience should you decide to get one!

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