Razor 4 or XDeep 2.0 tec for women

[banudemircioglu]

Hello ! I'm sidemount certified and only dive recreational for now. However, I want to buy my own sidemount gear and get tec certified to cave dive in the future. This is why I would prefer buying tec equipment even though it will be for later. I was thinking of getting the xdeep tec 2.0 bcd however I have been told by many sidemount tec divers that the bladder would be too big for me since my waist and shoulders are very thin. Even the Rec bladder seems to be quite bulky for my waist size. Plus, the weight distribution on Razor 4 offers more configuration options which is important to me especially for single tank sidemount dives. Moreover, when the xdeep bcd is inflated, I found my lower buddy go up a little because the inflated air goes to the lower back whereas the inflated air is more equally distributed in the Razor bcd especially for women since we need less support around the hips area

After some research and recommendations, the Razor 4 bcd seems to be more adequate for me and looks like it would fit more. I am planning on diving both alu and steel tanks in cold and warm water and travel quite a lot with my gear. I am still a bit confused because although both brands are used in tec cave diving, I find xdeep to be more popular. I live in Europe so because of the tax situation the prices are quite similar between xdeep and Razor to ship to France, for this reason it is more of a fitting and comfort choice for me rather than price.

What would you recommend?

Thank you in advance for your time and feedback !
Safe dives
Banu

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Consider the Dive-Rite Ray. I cave dive with it using steel tanks.
It is very cool.

 

[grantmac]

Also look at SumpUK, they offer a tonne of customization.

 

[grantctobin]

Hello ! I'm sidemount certified and only dive recreational for now. However, I want to buy my own sidemount gear and get tec certified to cave dive in the future. This is why I would prefer buying tec equipment even though it will be for later. I was thinking of getting the xdeep tec 2.0 bcd however I have been told by many sidemount tec divers that the bladder would be too big for me since my waist and shoulders are very thin. Even the Rec bladder seems to be quite bulky for my waist size. Plus, the weight distribution on Razor 4 offers more configuration options which is important to me especially for single tank sidemount dives. Moreover, when the xdeep bcd is inflated, I found my lower buddy go up a little because the inflated air goes to the lower back whereas the inflated air is more equally distributed in the Razor bcd especially for women since we need less support around the hips area

After some research and recommendations, the Razor 4 bcd seems to be more adequate for me and looks like it would fit more. I am planning on diving both alu and steel tanks in cold and warm water and travel quite a lot with my gear. I am still a bit confused because although both brands are used in tec cave diving, I find xdeep to be more popular. I live in Europe so because of the tax situation the prices are quite similar between xdeep and Razor to ship to France, for this reason it is more of a fitting and comfort choice for me rather than price.

What would you recommend?

Thank you in advance for your time and feedback !
Safe dives
Banu

How petite are you?

I find the razor much more sensitive in terms of setup. If you often need significant lift in the wing, the Rec would likely be a better choice than the Razor because of the profile once inflated. (Razor balloons more). I’d likely get a Razor, but it’s very infrequent that I have more than a couple kilos of gas in my wing. I would not get a Tec, but ideally you’re in a place to try both.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the weight placement for single cylinder sidemount diving. Most people do not stick with such a system and done properly, the weight often needs to be slid around over the course of the dive (a la start on opposite side, finish on side with the increasingly empty cylinder).

 

[Guille G]

I only own a Razor and dive it in Mexico, to put some context. The consensus among cave instructors and guides (I’ve talked to) down in MX seems to be that both are equally fine systems.

For the X Deep some don’t like the OPV placing, which is harder to reach and a bit more exposed to damage. It is also a bit bulkier and, if you are worried about redundant buoyancy (many aren’t) then the X deep solution is not great, since you are basically wearing two wings. However, it is MUCH easier to set up and adjust than tue razor and the multiple wing choices give you more flexibility for different buoyancy requirements. The consensus here on SB seems to be that it is also better suited to cold weather, steel tank diving (though outside the board not everyone agrees - I haven’t dives my Razor with steels so I don’t have a personal opinion).

The Razor on the other hand is very streamlined and light by comparison. However, it is a pain in the butt to set up, takes many dives to get it just right and it is very “fiddly”. There is also no butt plate option. It is best to have someone who has one help you set it up if possible.

It comes with a single bungee and fixed d-rings vs. the X-deep that has loop bungees and sliding d-rings for tank placing. However, you can change this very easily this if you want to.

Ultimately, both systems are likely fine and you can get used to whatever is different. In my case I went with the Razor because someone gave me a discount, and also because I couldn’t find an Xdeep in stock locally. I am happy with my choice, but I would have probably been happy with the X deep too.

 

[Jens Bölte]

Hello

I have an xdeep classic and a Razor. The xdeep is easier to adjust because the waist belt, crotch and shoulders straps are separate. Adjusting the waist belt on a Razor will affect the length of the hip belt as it is one belt. The length of the back strap affects the length of the crotch strap because it is one belt. It takes longer to set up the Razor than the xdeep, but it can be done.
One friend of mine dives the xdeep tec, another the xdeep rec. The tec is really big around the waist and comes really far forward, which can make it difficult to access anything on the waist belt, clipping can become difficult. You have to try it on to see if a tec or rec fit you. The wide part of the Razor is a little higher, so the waist belt is accessible even when the bladder is wrapped around you.
You can dive, at least in Europe, steel and alu with both. There are no really heavy steel tanks in Europe that would require a butt plate. The pouch of the Razor is much better, larger, than the xdeep pouch. The Razor is much more expensive than the xdeep, at least here in Germany.

Best wishes Jens

 

[Florinda]

I know lots of female cave divers who dive either system. Either system will take a while to configure to your liking. The Razor has a redundant bladder, which is good if you plan to dive in a wetsuit. I dive the XDeep because it was the only harness that did not dig into my armpits in a painful way. If you have a very narrow chest or shoulders, you might prefer the XDeep. Or you can also modify the Razor webbing by stitching it into a tube if it is painful. The XDeep pouch is useless for caves, but you can easily buy a pouch from another brand. You will also need to make changes to your system when you go from warm water to cold water. Depending on how often you switch water temps, you may want to have two systems anyway.

 

[jzlassme]

Hello

I have an xdeep classic and a Razor. The xdeep is easier to adjust because the waist belt, crotch and shoulders straps are separate. Adjusting the waist belt on a Razor will affect the length of the hip belt as it is one belt. The length of the back strap affects the length of the crotch strap because it is one belt. It takes longer to set up the Razor than the xdeep, but it can be done.
One friend of mine dives the xdeep tec, another the xdeep rec. The tec is really big around the waist and comes really far forward, which can make it difficult to access anything on the waist belt, clipping can become difficult. You have to try it on to see if a tec or rec fit you. The wide part of the Razor is a little higher, so the waist belt is accessible even when the bladder is wrapped around you.
You can dive, at least in Europe, steel and alu with both. There are no really heavy steel tanks in Europe that would require a butt plate. The pouch of the Razor is much better, larger, than the xdeep pouch. The Razor is much more expensive than the xdeep, at least here in Germany.

Best wishes Jens

Very detailed comparison, and pretty much aligned with my experience on both unit. Adding some of my 2 cents.

I found Xdeep tec wing performs better and more natural as the air is distributed much more evenly around the waist and hip, Razor feels like all the lift is on center back. If you correctly weight, you don't need that much air in the wing anyway, at least not to a point that will annoy you. However, when the wing is empty, Razor is 10x more streamline. And for warm water, the built-in redundant bladder is a plus, at least you don't need to pay extra for redundant bladder. Another feature I like on Xdeep is the center dump valve, some people hate it because it is hard to reach, but I like that I can use both hands to dump. One thing I need to criticize the Razor wing is the corrugated hose length. It comes with 19in hose, which is way too long. I have seen big guys with 16in hose on Xdeep, and they are just fine. The problem with unnecessary long hose is not only about streamline, but it is freaking hard to release air. The Razor inflator has the pull dump feature, the longer the hose, the more you have to extend your arms to build up the tension on the corrugated hose to release the air. I cannot image how Steve or HP pull the inflator dump with 19in hose when they stuck in a tight cave restriction. Or I guess the first thing they do is swap out the 19in hose to 16in or even 13in version.

Depends on your height and size, I think Razor will fit better on shorter and slimmer body type. Because the harness can let you adjust the height of the wing. To me, one of the pros of Razor is the lumbar plate is much smaller, so that the drop attachment points can sit right on my butt cheeks rather than push away. When I am on wetsuit, the Xdeep's drop attachment point will be at my 4, 8 o'clock, compared to Razor's perfect 5,7. However, an aftermarket drop dring from SumpUK can solve the problem.

 

[TheCatFish]

Hello

I have an xdeep classic and a Razor. The xdeep is easier to adjust because the waist belt, crotch and shoulders straps are separate. Adjusting the waist belt on a Razor will affect the length of the hip belt as it is one belt. The length of the back strap affects the length of the crotch strap because it is one belt. It takes longer to set up the Razor than the xdeep, but it can be done.
One friend of mine dives the xdeep tec, another the xdeep rec. The tec is really big around the waist and comes really far forward, which can make it difficult to access anything on the waist belt, clipping can become difficult. You have to try it on to see if a tec or rec fit you. The wide part of the Razor is a little higher, so the waist belt is accessible even when the bladder is wrapped around you.
You can dive, at least in Europe, steel and alu with both. There are no really heavy steel tanks in Europe that would require a butt plate. The pouch of the Razor is much better, larger, than the xdeep pouch. The Razor is much more expensive than the xdeep, at least here in Germany.

Best wishes Jens

Good review. I just want to add that while the Razor is fiddly, it is not a huge learning curve. The learning curve is even smoother if you use sliding D rings rather than fixed rings.

The fact that the Razor uses 2 pieces of webbing and a crotch strap makes repairs and custom work a breeze, and finding the correct length of webbing material is easy since the metal delta plates should match up with your shoulder blades and lumbar location.

Tightening the belt definitely does impact the geometry of the mounting points. This is a big reason I use Dive Rite’s sliding D’s.

With 4 sliding D rings and 2 rectangle D’s you have 6 waist attachments to use with 2 to 4 tanks, alu or steel, and when diving with only 2 tanks the extra D rings can be slid up to your backside where they are out of the way and out of mind.

Then, regardless of if you are wet or dry, steel or aluminum, 80,85,100,108, etc? You always have the adjustability you need right at your fingertips, in-situ, without nagging your partner to adjust you.