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UTD Z+, Razor BAT or Xdeep Stealth 2.0

Discussion in 'Sidemount Diving' started by Pao, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. SangP

    SangP Loggerhead Turtle

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    Thanks sebaworld, The wing looks very compact however, what are the major differences between the various systems.
     
  2. mulla

    mulla Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Australia
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    Sorry for the hijack.

    What's everyone's opinion of these 3 systems as a tropical travel rig? For say up to 4x AL80s or at least 2x AL80 and 2x AL40s?

    The main feature I'm after is light weight and compact size as I currently have an SMS 100 for local steel tank diving. I'm not convinced by the Stealth 2.0 due to the separate inflation module. So that probably leaves me with the UTD Z+ or Razor BAT. The UTD Z+ do look bigger compared to the Razor so I guess my best option would be the Razor BAT system?

    Anyone with experience with the Razor BAT in a 4 tank dive to share?
     
  3. divewelder

    divewelder DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives:
    Location: Venice,Fl/ Riverview,Mi
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    mulla I wouldnt overlook the UTD Z+ I use one right now for travel. Im able to pack UTD Z+ two Regs, all my sidemount rigging,computer,LM 12W LED .
    In an akona executive regulator bag for carry on .and still have room for more.Ill try to get a few pics .

    Ive also purchased the XDEEP stealth 2.0 from sebaworld Great Guy to deal with.I still need to few dives on it to see if it will become my primary SM rig.
     
  4. mulla

    mulla Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Australia
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    Thanks divewelder for vouching for the compactness of the Z+, will definitely consider the Z+ again.

    One question about these systems, with the Hollis they have a chest strap that's attached to a huge metal O-ring where the shoulder strap attaches to as well. (Sorry don't know the technical term for it). I typically hook the tank bungee to this O-ring. I noticed with the Z+ and Razor there is no chest strap or O-ring, I gather you would attach the bungee to the should D ring instead. How cluttered does the shoulder D ring become with 2 tanks and the bungee all clipped off at the same point (total 3 bolt snaps)?

    To me the Xdeep's separate inflation module is just another piece of equipment to get misplaced and an extra step in gearing up. I need all the help I can get so I can be ready as quickly as the BM guys.
     
  5. decompression

    decompression Instructor...seriously...

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
    4,075
    1,594
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    How we've been doing it lately is running the bungee under the glide (just a knot, no bolt snap) either the d ring glide or another shallow D ring just under the "upper" D ring. Keeps the d ring uncluttered ( works great on the right as you can connect your back up light there). I believe there are some pictures on their website, if not I can post a few of my set ups. There would only be 1 bolt snap per bottle up to a total of 2 per side and any more than that we use a leash.
     
  6. mulla

    mulla Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Australia
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    Thanks decompression, yes would greatly appreciate if you can post up some photos of your Z+ setup. Just can't picture how you'd run the knotted bungee under the d ring or glide. I can picture the low profile d ring option would be similar to what I'm currently doing.
     
  7. Karl_H

    Karl_H DIR Practitioner

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    Hi Mulla,

    I dive with both the Z-Plus (without the manifold system) and the Razor BAT wing but would say it’s a close call between the two; unfortunately both have a few flaws in warm water….

    The main flaw of the BAT wing is the attachment bungee and lack of baffles within the wing, the bungee needs to be tight or the wing floats quite a way off your body. The downside is that without internal baffles in the wing and with a bungee connection it shifts all the air into the centre of the wing which isn’t great for balance/comfort with unequal loads on the left and right side – something that is a problem with two stage bottles.

    The Z-plus feels better when deflated but air tends to move around a lot when it’s inflated only a little, this is more of a problem in tropical conditions are we normally don’t need much lift for 95% of the dive unless we’re going to trimix depths. The internal baffles work well to keep air moving left and right but the wing has a habit of air working it’s way to the uppermost part (which seems to be oversized for warm water?), making you feel feet heavy. The bladder also feels a little loose in tropical conditions unless it’s attached directly to the harness, in which case you’ll loose a lot of the additional lift anyway.

    If you’re looking at tropical diving with two Al40 stages I’d still say go with the Z-trim or Stealth 2.0 bladder, we often use the Z-trim for wreck trips here in the Philippines with up to 4 Al80 up to 50m in depth – the main issue is surface buoyancy at the start of the dive – otherwise it’s fine underwater.

    Regarding the bungee connections I’d advise against moving the bungee connection points lower on the harness, the tanks just don’t sit as well. In cold water the d-ring clutter is a problem but for a warm water d-ring clutter shouldn’t be an issue with up to 3-4 clips (stage bottle, long hose and light, I wouldn’t use clips on the sidemount bottles – they aren’t needed for warm water Al80s) on a single chest d-ring, if it seems too cluttered I’d say the clips are too big.

    Hope that helps!

    Karl
     
  8. mulla

    mulla Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Australia
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    Thanks Karl for sharing your valuable experience!

    I think for this reason I am leaning more towards the Z+. When you say attaching the bladder directly to the harness, where else would I attach the bladder? Or it can be separately attached like the Stealth 2.0?

    Z trim has 20lbs of lift yer? From your experience you believe that's good enough for 4x AL80s? If so then I could even consider the Hollis SMS50?
     
  9. Karl_H

    Karl_H DIR Practitioner

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    Sorry - that sounds right in my head earlier but doesn't make sense when I have re-read it :) Basically there are two ways to attach the Z+, using the elastic tabs to connect the bladder to the upper (full tank) d-ring mountings on the harness waist, or to use the slider on the BC itself to mount it directly to the harness (mounting the rear waist d-rings on this slider). The elastic option leave the BC feeling a little 'loose' when slightly inflated, while the direct mounting option means the BC is held tightly against the harness so can't fully inflate. Hopefully that one is a bit clearer

    In short, yes - if you have the SMS50 give it a try, the main problem you will have is at the surface at the start of the dive when the tanks are full, I'd recommend leaching the two stages at the surface and putting them on on the decent or while under the surface. At the end of the dive try leaching the stages again and taking the SM tanks out of the bungees and left to hand from the harness waist d-rings, this will keep the tanks underwater and make floating at the surface much easier - having the tanks out of the water (if the bungee is left in place or stages clipped to the chest d-rings) will make it difficult to stay afloat, even with relatively empty tanks - keeping the tank volume below the water surface is the key.
     
  10. decompression

    decompression Instructor...seriously...

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
    4,075
    1,594
    113
    The alpha/delta trim might be the best fit, it's got 37 lbs of lift, fits streamlined around the body, due to the grommets in the centre it doesn't have noticeable air movement.....it fits between the z trim and z + for lift as its essentially a z+ with grommets to allow it to do BM as well, similar to the SM 100.

    pics of my bungee to follow.....
     

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